布雷特·拜尔专访马斯克与 DOGE（完整版）

0:14Our goal is to reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars. From a nominal deficit of two trillion to try cut the deficit in half to one trillion, or looked at it in total federal spending, to drop the federal spending from seven trillion to six trillion. We want to reduce the spending by eliminating waste and fraud, reduce the spending by 15%, which seems really quite achievable. The government is not efficient and there's a lot of waste and fraud, so we feel confident that a 15% reduction can be done without affecting any of the critical government services.

0:54If not making it better.

1:01The sheer amount of waste and fraud in the government. It is astonishing. It's mind-blowing. We routinely encounter wastes of a billion dollars or more. Casually. For example, the simple survey that was literally a 10 question survey that you could do with SurveyMonkey, cost you about $10,000. The government was being charged almost a billion dollars for that.

1:30A billion dollars for a simple online survey. "Do you like the national park?" And then there appeared to be no feedback loop for what would be done with that survey. The survey would just go into nothing. It was insane.

1:51I think we will have accomplished most of the work required to reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars within that timeframe.

2:01Yes.

2:05Not really a report. We are cutting the waste and fraud in real time. Every day like that passes, our goal is to reduce the waste and fraud by $4 billion a day every day, seven days a week. And so far, we are succeeding.

2:40I do agree that we actually want to be careful in the cuts. We want to measure twice, if not thrice, and cut once. And actually that is our approach. They may characterize it as shooting from the hip, but it is anything but that, which is not to say that we don't make mistakes. If we were to approach this with the standard of making no mistakes at all, that would be like saying someone in baseball has got to bat 1000. That's impossible. When we do make mistakes, we correct them quickly and we move on.

4:15I'd just like to sort of re-emphasize that point. The success of DOGE is only possible with President Trump and with the outstanding cabinet that he's selected. It would be impossible without the support of the President and the cabinet.

5:08We try to keep Congress as informed as possible, but the law does say that money needs to be spent correctly. It should not be spent fraudulently or wastefully. It's not contrary to Congress to avoid waste and fraud. It is consistent with the law and consistent with Congress. And we've seen, actually, great support, at least from the Republican side of the House, and occasionally some Democrats too. It's nice to see people cross the aisle once in a while, but usually when they attack DOGE, they never attack any of the specifics. They'll say what we're doing is somehow unconstitutional or illegal or whatever. We're like, which line of the cost savings do you disagree with? And they can't point to any. And we list them all on DOGE.gov and the DOGE handle on X. And you'll see just outrageous things. One outrageous thing after another.

7:34Yes. The retirement process is all by paper, literally with people carrying paper in manila envelopes into this gigantic mine.

7:48The reason we discovered it was we were saying let's encourage voluntary retirement. They said, the most they could do is 8,000 a month. And even under normal circumstances, it can take six to nine months just to have your retirement paperwork processed. And they often get the calculations wrong. We're like, why would it take so long to retire? And they're like, because of the mine. They're like, what do you mean a mine? What's a mine got to do with retiring? And that's where we discovered that all the retirement stuff is still done by paper in a process that looks identical to what occurred in the 1950s. If you took a snapshot of the mine when it first started in the '50s, to today, it looks the same.

10:57Yes. And they steal people's Social Security is what happens, is they call in, they say… They claim to be a retiree, and they convince the Social Security person on the phone to change where the money's flowing. It actually goes to some fraudster. This is happening all day every day, and then somebody doesn't receive their Social Security. It's because of all the fraud loopholes in the Social Security system.

11:30No. In fact, what we're doing will help their benefits. Legitimate people as a result of the work of DOGE will receive more Social Security, not less. I want to emphasize that. As a result of the work of DOGE, legitimate recipients of Social Security will receive more money, not less money.

11:49I want to emphasize that point and let the record show that I said this and it'll be proven out to be true. Let's check back on this in the future.

12:16Yes, we're going to make sure that the website stays online.

12:21No.

12:39Yes.

14:19Yes.

14:19And they don't communicate.

14:19Yeah.

14:25Yeah.

14:30And most of them are non-technical.

14:36And when I say that our job is tech support, I really mean it. We have to fix the computers. If the computers can't talk to each other, you can't get research done. If the computers can't stay online, people won't receive their Social Security. So what we have here are a bunch of failing computer systems that are preventing people from receiving their benefits, that are preventing research from happening, that are extremely vulnerable to fraud. And we're fixing it.

15:19It's going to affect people very positively. So the changes that we're doing here will ensure the solvency of the American government, of the United States of America. This is what we're trying to do, is ensure that people do receive their benefits in the future. And you can only receive your benefits if the country is operating in a healthy and competent way.

16:41Yeah.

16:45It's also not make anyone healthy.

17:26It doesn't make any sense. Would you have 1400 people whose only job it is to give out a laptop on a phone?

18:39Basically almost no one's gotten fired, is what we're saying.

19:24It's a big one. It's a big one.

20:28[inaudible 00:20:29].

20:31The federal government cannot pass it. It's impossible. In fact in order to pass an order, you need the information that's needed to pass an order. You need to have the payment codes. You need to have the payment explanation, and you need to have a person you can contact to understand why that payment was made. None of those things were mandatory until just recently, just a few weeks ago. In fact, maybe last week.

22:01It's that bad.

22:40Well, this is a revolution, and I think it might be the biggest revolution in government since the original revolution. But at the end of the day, America's going to be in much better shape. America will be solvent. The critical programs that people depend upon will work. And it's going to be a fantastic future. But are we going to get a lot of complaints along the way? Absolutely. One of the things I learned at PayPal was you know who complains the loudest and with the most amount of fake righteous indignation? The fraudsters. It's a tell. [inaudible 00:23:17] crazy, like the $2 billion to Stacy Abrams's NGO that basically didn't exist and suddenly gets $2 billion awarded from the federal government. Why? And there are many such cases like that.

23:43Right. And what we're trying to say is actually that the 94-year-old grandmother is actually, as a result of DOGE's work, going to get her check. She is not going to be robbed by fraudsters like she's getting robbed today. And the solvency of the federal government will ensure that she continues to receive those social security checks, that Medicare continues to work, without which we're all doomed. The reason we're doing this is because if we don't do it, America's going to go insolvent. We're going to go bankrupt. And nobody's going to get anything.

25:10Oh yeah.

25:51We're taking it easy, but clearly there should not be more credit cards than there are people.

26:46We're talking about elementary financial controls that are necessary for any company to function. So, if a commercial company operated the way the federal government is, then it would immediately go bankrupt. It would be delisted. The officers would be arrested. And the changes we're putting in place will enable the federal government to pass an audit. It will enable the taxpayers to know where the money is going and know that their hard earned tax dollars being spent well. The ways that the government is defrauded is that the computer systems don't talk to each other. So, if the computer systems don't talk to each other, then you can exploit that gap and fraudsters exploit that gap, take advantage. If, for example, there were over $300 million of a Small Business Administration loans that has been given out to people under the age of 11.

27:48Yes. The oldest American is 114. So, safe to say if their age is 115 or above, they're fake or they should be in the Guinness Book of World Records. And we should not be giving out loans to babies. The youngest recipient of a Small Business Administration loan is a 9-month-year-old, which is a very, very precocious baby we're talking about here. So, obviously which is fraudulent. And they do terrible things. We'll see that a kid's been born, they will steal that kid's social security number and then take out a loan and leave that kid with a bad credit rating. There was literally a baby. Terrible things are being done is what we're saying. We're stopping these terrible things.

28:34We are stopping it.

29:08One of the key tricks that the fraudsters pull is that they will use the fact that someone is marked as alive, just that social security number is marked as live in Social Security, and then get disability and unemployment insurance for a dead person because the databases don't talk to each other, all they got from Social Security is, " Is this person alive?" Yes. They're not alive. The person is falsely marked as alive in Social Security, but a fraudster can now get unemployment and disability from a dead person. This is happening all the time at scale.

30:04Well, the D.C. circuit is notorious for having a very far left bias. And when you look at the people close to some of these judges, where are they working? Oh, they're working at these NGOs. Oh, they're the ones getting this money. Does that seem like a system that lacks corruption? It sounds like corruption to me.

30:31It's essential.

30:48If we don't do this, we're sunk. Unless this exercise is successful, the ship of America will sink. That's why we're doing it.

31:08Thank you.

31:12[inaudible 00:31:13].

31:16Yeah.

31:24Well, I think in the context of the government, we're moving like lightning. In the context of what I'm used to moving, it's slower than I'd like. So what seems like incredibly fast action by government standards, it's slower than I'd like to be totally frank, but we are making solid progress. A very sort of thorny problem, a tough problem. Really, it's kind of like painful homework, frankly, it is reconciling all of the government databases to eliminate the waste and fraud. These databases don't talk to each other, and that's really the source of… That's the biggest vulnerability for fraud, is the fact that these databases don't talk to each other. So we need to reconcile the databases. It's frankly painful homework, but it has to be done and will greatly improve the efficiency of the government systems.

32:23The Pentagon has not passed an audit in a very long time. I mean, it's crazy as it sounds. They will lose $ 20, $30 billion a year and they literally don't know where it went. I mean, Senator Collins was telling me about how she gave the Navy $12 billion for extra submarines, got zero extra submarines, and then when she held a hearing, said, "Where'd the $12 billion go?" They didn't know.

33:10Well, I think a great wrong is being done to the people of Tesla and to our customers. Tesla is a peaceful company that has made great cars, great products, that's all it's done, hasn't harmed anyone. And yet, people are committing violence. They're firebombing Tesla dealerships. They're shooting guns into stores. They're threatening people. They're issuing death threats against me and other Tesla personnel. What are they doing this for? Why? And what's happening, it seems to me is they're being fed propaganda by the far left and they believe it. It's really unfortunate. But the real problem is not the people… It's not like the crazy guy that firebombs a Tesla dealership. It's the people pushing the propaganda that caused that guy to do it. Those are the real villains here and we're going to go after them. And the President's made it clear, we're going to go after them. The ones providing the money, the ones pushing the lies and propaganda, we're going after them.

34:37It is ironic. I mean, it seems like the most ironic outcome is the most likely, but yeah, I mean-

34:48It does. Yeah, it does. I think there's some real evil out there and we have to overcome it.

35:05I mean, they've got the normal play book.

35:09I mean, they've still got it. I guess they still need to call me Stalin, Mussolini, whatever, Genghis Khan, or whatever. I mean, they've called the President all these things. I think at one point, there was a magazine cover which said the President was worse than… That President Trump was worse than Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin combined. And the President hasn't killed anyone, he hasn't started any wars. In fact, he's good at stopping wars. So this is obviously… They're pushing these lies, and why do they push these lies? And I think we need to hold people responsible for pushing these lies because those lies almost got the President killed.

36:01I think the President is a good man. I think he is an honest man, and I have yet to see him do anything mean or anything that is wrong, that I would say morally wrong. Not even once.

36:40Well, I think somebody should care about the interests of the United States above the interests of another country. And if they don't, they're a traitor.

36:56That doesn't mean it's okay for him to put the interest of another country above America.

37:14Well, I think there will be a negotiated peace. And the thing that we should be concerned about is we should have empathy for the thousands of people that are dying every day in trenches for no movement in the lines. So the borders remain the same. For the past two years, thousands of people have died every week for nothing. For what? And I take great offense at those who put the appearance of goodness over the reality of it. Those who virtue signal and say, "Oh, we can't give in to Russia," but have no solution to stopping thousands of kids dying every day. They just want that to continue forever. Have contempt for such people, I want to make that clear.

38:09Because they're virtue signaling and their lack of a solution means that kids don't have a father. It means that parents lost a son. For what? Nothing.

38:30The President's plan is the only thing that will work.