乔·罗根体验 #1609：马斯克

0:01Joe Rogan, one pass, check it out.

0:03The Joe Rogan, experience.

0:05Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night! All day!

0:09No, that's the Sasso Baron calling movie?

0:18Yeah. I never saw that one.

0:19Well, it was a scene where he's...

0:21They show him the new missile they've developed,

0:25but it has kind of a round head,

0:28and he says, you need to make it more pointy.

0:31To his engineers.

0:35And actually that's what I also say is the same thing.

0:40Yeah, Starship, we need to make it more pointy.

0:43Did you say that?

0:44And we made one.

0:45Because of the movie?

0:46Yeah.

0:47Really?

0:48Yeah.

0:49Hold on.

0:52Okay.

0:53Okay.

0:54Look, you literally told them to make the Starship more pointy because of the movie

0:58dictator.

0:59Yep.

1:00And they know it too.

1:01It's not like they haven't, they're unaware of it.

1:05It would be funny if we made the rock in more pointy, so we did.

1:08Did it have any effect on the aerodynamics?

1:10No.

1:11Nothing.

1:12Now we can make it way blunter and be fine.

1:14But is it better to be pointy?

1:16If it wasn't for the movie...

1:17It's arguably slightly worse.

1:19But more fun for you.

1:23It looks cooler.

1:24It does look cool.

1:26Yeah.

1:27How long do you think it would be before?

1:30Are you good, Jimmy?

1:31What's that?

1:34My head's maybe? Yeah, exactly.

1:37How long is it?

1:39It's not supposed to be okay.

1:44How long do you think it's going to be before you have regular flights with that where you

1:51can take off and land like an airplane?

1:54Where it would be very consistent?

1:56With that extra point of your rocket?

1:57Yeah, with your extra point of your rocket.

2:03Do you mean Earth to Earth's transport?

2:06Or Earth to all the directions?

2:08I guess people are the people.

2:10Any time where you could just do it with people

2:11and have it land all the time.

2:16I think it'll probably two years away.

2:18Two years away.

2:19That's really nice.

2:21Two years is pretty cool.

2:23G.S. for people.

2:24We'll have a lot of flights between now and then.

2:27That's crazy.

2:27That's 2023 is not that far away.

2:29That'll be there before you know it.

2:31Yeah.

2:32Wow.

2:332023.

2:34That applies.

2:35How many times have you had explosions

2:36with those things?

2:37When you're on a rocket.

2:38I don't know, like, quite a few, six, maybe five or six.

2:43What are those like?

2:44What is it like when you watch it explode, when it's supposed to land and it just...

2:51No, these are the test program.

2:54We expect it to explode.

2:56It's weird if it doesn't explode, frankly.

3:00Really?

3:01Yeah.

3:02Because we're trying to develop advanced rockets at a high speed.

3:06And if you want to get payload to orbit, you have to run things close to the edge.

3:12And the whole rocket is evolving.

3:14The engines, the structure, avionics, the software, the ground systems, all evolving simultaneously.

3:20So, and the whole production system, which is actually harder than the rocket design by far.

3:24So the rocket and engine and avionics production system is, and the launch system is a thousand percent

3:33hotter than the initial design, like at least. Really? Yeah. So when

3:38same with cars, it's like 10,000%. And it's easy to do a car

3:42prototype. It's hard to do production. So when you're looking

3:48at your scaling towards the future, and you're looking at

3:50mistakes or corrections, improvements, and all these

3:55different things, that's how you come up with this figure of

3:58approximately two years.

3:59If current trends continue, if we plot the points on the curve of progress, then we should be

4:09doing regular orbital flights with a high probability of safe landing in two years.

4:16So we're getting to over this year.

4:18I go to get to over this year.

4:20And I'd actually be able to tell you a stand.

4:23Starship is the largest flying object ever made.

4:28thing will be about over 5,000 tons of weight on liftoff. It's going to go straight up with

4:365,000 tons. This is much heavier than any aircraft by far. No aircraft even comes close

4:43to this weight. And it's going straight up, but aircraft can't go straight up. So it's

4:48like the... It's got more than twice the thrust of a Saturn V.

4:52Really?

4:53Yeah, yeah. It's like a big rocket.

4:55Why does it need that much thrust?

4:57Oh, we're trying because you want to go to Mars or is this like we're trying to make

5:03life multi-planetary, you know, extend life beyond Earth.

5:09And in order to do that, you have to have high tonnage to Mars.

5:12And that means you need a big rocket and you got to fly a lot.

5:15So the reason why it has twice the thrust of the Saturn V is to plan for these interstellar

5:21trips or the interplanetary trips.

5:24So when you're doing this and you're developing these systems, thinking about regular trips

5:31to other planets, but you're not just trying to get into orbit right now.

5:36You're trying to get into orbit with something that eventually gets scaled up.

5:39Yeah, we know how to get to orbit.

5:41We've done that a lot.

5:42So the really hard thing is we need to have a fully and rapidly reusable rocket where

5:51elements of the rocket are reused and they're reused quickly like in aircraft and this has

5:57never been done. This is the holy grail of rocketry. This is to have a fully reusable rocket.

6:03Then you need to go one step further, it needs to be fully and rapidly reusable.

6:07You know, it's like a plane. Yeah, yeah. Like a plane lands you, you know, refuel it and take

6:13off again. How do you have time? I've never understand you in regards to the way you run

6:20multiple businesses simultaneously. I would think that something like this would require

6:25so much concentration. I would think this would be your whole being trying to figure out how

6:32to work this. Yeah, well, I do work a lot. It's crazy. And I apologize for the reason I was

6:41late as I was coming from some critical meetings just doing, normally I'd be meeting until I'd

6:49working to like one or two in the morning.

6:52Every night.

6:54I mean Saturday, it's on day usually not, but sometimes.

6:58How much do you sleep?

6:59About six hours.

7:00Oh, that's pretty good.

7:02Yeah, not that crazy.

7:03For you, that's, I mean, for someone does as much as you,

7:05that's actually impressive that you can squeeze that in.

7:10Yeah.

7:10I've tried sleeping less, but then total productivity decreases.

7:15Yeah.

7:16So you feel like six is the number where it's not six.

7:19six or six or six. I can that. I don't find myself need it one thing more sleep than six.

7:26So when like with the Saturn five and the space shuttles and all these other rockets,

7:32they would they would have these parts that would they would get the ship up into space,

7:40but they would descend down to earth and crash into the ocean and they would never use them

7:45again. That's right.

7:46How do you avoid that?

7:47What is the difference between the way these things are structured?

7:51The whole thing goes together and then it lands together?

7:55Well, we're on the wrong planet for a single stage to orbit.

8:01I think one thing to appreciate is getting to space is easy, getting to orbit is hard.

8:06So you only need maybe one or two percent of the energy to get to space, to where the

8:12atmosphere is thin compared to what you need to get to orbit.

8:15And if you get to orbit, now you've got a burn-off of that energy and you're coming

8:18in like a meteor.

8:19So you need a powerful heat shield.

8:21So it's like super difficult to get to orbit at all.

8:26And then if you get to orbit at all, then making those stages reusable means they got

8:31to come back intact.

8:34And then the upper stage is especially difficult because it's got so much energy.

8:37All the energy you put into it, you have to take out.

8:40So you're literally coming in like a flaming meteor, and most things would just melt or

8:50vaporize.

8:53Like if you as a human try to come in from orbit, you'd just be pink mist.

8:57Yeah.

8:58That's a funny way to put it.

9:02Now the space shuttle, they had tiles, right?

9:05That was the way they avoided the heat.

9:08They had these heat shield tiles.

9:11you use with the SpaceX rockets?

9:14Yeah, we have a more advanced version of the shuttle tab, but you go to use some kind

9:18of ceramic.

9:20Essentially, it's usually some form of silicon oxide, aluminum oxide, carbon, perhaps thrown

9:29in there.

9:31And is it like a one piece or is it in tiles the way?

9:35In tiles, yeah, we have hexagonal tiles.

9:37You can see that with each starship we've actually increased the size of the heat shield.

9:43The tiles are kind of like, I don't know, just not quite right now, they're kind of like

9:52dinner plates.

9:53They're brittle and they're coefficient of thermal expansion is different from metal,

10:02the metal will expand and contract differently from the tiles.

10:07And the tiles also get super hot while the metal can be super cold, because it's got

10:11cryogenic fluid behind it.

10:13So you have this differential expansion and contraction, which makes the gaps in the tiles

10:20expand and contract.

10:21But if the gaps get too big, then you get kind of the hot gas, sort of the plasma gets

10:27in down, and if we get plasma in the crack, and it's not that bad.

10:31and then you're going to melt the metal behind it.

10:34But if they're too close, then they bang together and they crack.

10:38So you've got to get it just right where the gaff's just right and then the way that they're

10:45attached to the body they can move around a little bit.

10:48So there has to be some sort of room to move.

10:50It can't be one large piece of ceramic that you fit over the front.

10:56You can't really make such a giant piece of ceramic,

11:01because you've got to, well I guess you'd have

11:03like a super gigantic oven.

11:07But you really need expansion joints,

11:11expansion contraction joints.

11:12So it's quite difficult to do a single piece tile.

11:17The thing about tiles for a roof or something like that,

11:21you know, like why don't you just make one tile for a roof?

11:23It's like, it doesn't work.

11:25Now, these things have multiple stages.

11:28How many stages?

11:31In these, the rocket boosters.

11:32When things are taking off, how many?

11:35So, I'm sure it has two stages.

11:36So, that's the minimum number that you could do

11:40on a planet like Earth.

11:41Gravity, Earth's gravity is quite strong.

11:45And we have a thick atmosphere and strong gravity.

11:48So, whereas like if you took off from Mars,

11:52it would be, it's like relatively easy.

11:55Mars is around just under 40% of Earth's gravity.

12:00The moon is about a sixth.

12:02And getting to lunar orbit from the surface of the moon

12:05is easy.

12:10When we're going to follow the lunar lander,

12:13just the top half of the lunar lander

12:15was able to take off and get to lunar orbit.

12:18But to get to Earth orbit, you need the giant rocket.

12:22Because it's very nonlinear.

12:24So what happens to the first, when you take off

12:27and it separates in the stages, how does the first stage

12:31get reused?

12:33Well have you seen how the Falcon Lion stages work,

12:36where they come back and land?

12:38No.

12:38You haven't seen it?

12:39No.

12:39Wow.

12:40Yeah, I mean.

12:44Jamie's going to pull it up.

12:46So does it come down with parachutes?

12:48Does it, like how does it land?

12:53No, it lands purposefully with the thrusters,

12:56with the engines.

12:57Really?

12:57Yeah.

12:59So it's designed to take off.

13:02Here it is.

13:03Yeah.

13:06Oh, wow.

13:11So that is the bottom of the rocket that launches it straight up.

13:16And then afterwards, it comes down and lands like that.

13:19That's amazing.

13:24And then the top piece can then land separately.

13:28Yes.

13:29Well, in the case of Falcon 9, the upper stage

13:32runs up on reentry.

13:35Falcon 9 has, there's the fairing,

13:37the top, where the satellites are contained in the top,

13:41and that the fairing has, once it gets to space,

13:45where the atmosphere is thin,

13:46it's a little long way from orbit, but it's in space.

13:49So you no longer need the, the satellite does need

13:53to be protected by the nose cone, the fairing.

13:55And so that, it sort of splits in two and falls away.

13:59And then so with Falcon 9 we recovered the the fairing house and we recover the booster, but we lose the upper stage

14:08On purpose

14:12Yes, but it's not really possible to if with Falcon 9

14:18We the architecture is like if we made the upper stage reusable

14:26Opelite over would be dramatically less

14:29So in order to have meaningful payload to orbit, scale is important.

14:35Like you need to make things big.

14:37There is value to scale.

14:40For a truck you wouldn't want everything delivered by a small pickup truck.

14:49You want semi-trailers.

14:51You don't see ships in the ocean, cargo ships coming along with

14:59coming along with one Z-van out with an outboard motor.

15:03It's like a giant ship.

15:05So scale has value in and of itself.

15:10The same computer that controls the big rocket

15:13controls the tiny rocket.

15:14So even just in terms of the computer, the computer

15:18and the electronics weight becomes

15:21vanishingly small in the big rocket,

15:22but it is significant in a small rocket.

15:25Do you think there'll ever be a time

15:27where there's an alternative source of propulsion outside

15:30of just a burning fuel?

15:33Like is it possible that someone would develop

15:35a nuclear propulsion or some other method

15:39other than just burning large amounts of gasoline

15:42or rocket fuel?

15:45There's no way around Newton's Third Law really.

15:50So you basically have to expel mass.

15:55Like when you get to, you know, for a car that you could push against the ground, for

16:02an aircraft, you can react against the air.

16:07But you can react against water.

16:09In vacuum, there is nothing.

16:12So the only way to move is to react against yourself, to essentially shoot out gas at

16:20very high velocity, and to transfer momentum from, you know, to that gas that is going that

16:30way very rapidly. So you want to accelerate a small amount of mass very fast in order to

16:35have you, the large amount of mass, accelerates slowly. Because momentum is conserved. So, yeah.

16:47So we're stuck with gas.

16:48Yeah.

16:49Until some insane breakthrough dealing with gravity or something.

16:54Yeah, that means it's not going to happen.

16:56Not in our lifetime?

16:57Not in our lifetime.

16:58No.

16:59Yeah.

17:00So ironically everything will go electric except for rockets.

17:11Now you can make rockets indirectly electric by using electricity to create the fuel.

17:20So you can take CO2 and H2O and create methane and oxygen from that.

17:29So methane and CH4 and oxygen is O2.

17:35And for example on Mars, which is a primarily CO2 atmosphere and there's a lot of water

17:39ice is you can mine the ice, take the ice, and the CO2F from the atmosphere.

17:47So we'll find this a lot, but run it over a catalyst and give it a lot of energy and

17:54you can get CH402 and you can gracefully get your propellant on Mars.

18:01The rocket by the way is mostly oxygen.

18:03So for Starship, we're almost 80% oxygen.

18:08It's only just over 20% fuel.

18:12Really?

18:13Yeah.

18:14So, is this as efficient as you anticipated being, you know, anytime in our lifetime?

18:22Like, is it the trip to Mars is like, what, six months?

18:25Is that what the idea is?

18:26Yeah, it's about six months.

18:28Do you ever anticipate it being quicker than that?

18:30Is it possible to make these things faster?

18:36Would you have to have solar sales?

18:38No, solar sales would be very slow.

18:39What it would be?

18:40Yeah, I mean, I'm trying to think of a way

18:43to think about gravity here with a lot of analogies.

18:46But you can think, like space itself is curved,

18:56like it's like a funnel.

18:57Like if there's something that has a lot of mass,

19:01So it's creating like a funnel.

19:03And so in the same way, if you have a coin funnel,

19:07and the coin thinks it's going on a straight line pretty much.

19:16The physicists out there might have quibble with my analogies.

19:19But anyway, I'm trying to convey what gravity is like a funnel.

19:24And so if you want to get out of that gravity well,

19:27you actually need to go very fast parallel to the Earth's surface.

19:32And if you go parallel to the Earth's surface, the further out you spin.

19:36So you can think like a marble and a funnel.

19:37Like if you want that marble to go far out, you just spin it sideways,

19:41and it'll spiral out.

19:43And conversely, if you, just due to the friction of the air friction and the rolling friction,

19:51it will slow down a little bit if you don't give it any push, and will slowly spiral in.

19:56And then as it gets closer, it spins faster and faster.

20:00And this is how gravity basically works.

20:04So all the things in this solar system

20:10are spinning around this gigantic funnel in space time

20:14called the Sun.

20:16And we're like these tiny little dust

20:18motes going around the Sun.

20:21And the further you are away from the Sun,

20:24the slower you move around in terms of degrees per second.

20:27So like the orbit of Mars, which is further away from the sun,

20:31is about two years.

20:33And it's one year.

20:36Because Mars is about 50% further away from the Earth

20:41than the Earth is.

20:43So it's like Mars, where this is at one astronomical unit,

20:47Mars is like 1 and 1 half-ish.

20:49That's an astronomical unit.

20:51So we're about eight light minutes away from the sun.

20:53Mars is about 12.

20:56And yeah, so when you want to go to Mars,

21:00you basically accelerate along the same path of Earth

21:06going around the sun.

21:07And you time it such that your acceleration

21:11gives you an elliptical orbit around the sun

21:14where the tip of the ellipse intersects with Mars.

21:17So Mars is going around and you just time it

21:21to coincide with the tip of your ellipse being Mars.

21:25And that turns out to be about a six-month journey.

21:29Now you can speed that up.

21:31I think I could sort of see a way to make it happen in,

21:34say, three months, where the intersection with Mars

21:37would not be at the tip of the ellipse

21:39but on the edge of the ellipse.

21:40Now, that would mean the tip of the ellipse

21:42is out near Jupiter.

21:43So if you miss Mars, you're going to end up

21:45at Jupiter.

21:47Jupiter's orbit.

21:49So that's not good.

21:52Yeah.

21:53And you're going to be coming in hot.

21:57But I think probably you can get down to three months

21:59of that bigger problem.

22:01Getting out to a month, hard.

22:07And then, Earth and Mars are only in the same sort of,

22:14there's only about a six month period every two years

22:17when Earth and Mars are aligned such that you can do the transfer.

22:22You can certainly imagine that if Mars is on the other side

22:24the sun, you can't get there.

22:26Because you've got to go through the sun.

22:27That's not going to work.

22:28So you've got to time it.

22:31This is like about a quarter of every Mars year

22:36is when you can do the transfer.

22:38So six months every two years.

22:42So if we are able to build, or if humanity is able to build

22:45a city on Mars, people will probably

22:49remember which planetary conjunction they came on.

22:54Because it's not like you just go all the time. You can only go over tears.

22:59When do you anticipate, like, how much time before there's regular travel back and forth to Mars?

23:06Roughly. Like a real civilization on Mars.

23:14Well, I think it's going to take a while to build a real civilization.

23:21The real threshold that really matters is

23:28for getting past the great filter.

23:32Do we have enough resources on Mars such that

23:38if the spaceships from Earth stop coming, yeah.

23:44So I can only be just missing one little thing.

23:47You'd be like, you're on a long sea voyage

23:49and the only thing you're missing is vitamin T.

23:51It's a lot good.

23:54It's only a matter of time, you know?

23:56Yeah.

23:57And then it's gonna be curtains.

23:57So you got to have all the things necessary to sustain civilization on Mars.

24:05And the reason that the ships from the stopcoming could be World War III or it could be due

24:11to a slow decline of civilization.

24:14So civilization here on Earth could end with a bang or a wimper.

24:19Or natural disasters.

24:20Yeah.

24:21Asteroid impacts.

24:22Yeah, that would be cool.

24:23Yeah, that would be cool.

24:24In the bank category.

24:25Yeah.

24:26like, so like what killed the dinosaurs? Well, it wasn't just one thing, you know. It was like a whole bunch of things happened in a row and

24:34you know

24:37Well, they could have taken any one of those things they had like three things happen and no dinosaurs

24:43Which is kind of amazing that crocodiles are still here. Yeah, those fuckers. Well, they're resilient crocodiles

24:51They all live on decayed meat. They love rotten meat and so

24:57In any kind of disaster situation,

25:01there's a lot of dead creatures,

25:03and the crocodiles love it.

25:05So that's why they're around crocodiles

25:08and bugs and mushrooms.

25:11And shrews.

25:13Shrews, yeah.

25:14Which is why we're here.

25:15Yeah, exactly.

25:16Great, great, great, great, great, great.

25:17Grandparents were shrews.

25:19What a strange thing to come from.

25:22So there's hope for all your rodents out there.

25:25Yeah.

25:26what day you can go to Mars.

25:27Just keep doing your homework.

25:29Absolutely.

25:30So there'll be, you say the great filter.

25:35What did you mean by that?

25:38Well, so there's something called like the Fermi paradox

25:43of like where are the aliens?

25:44Yeah.

25:45So where are the aliens?

25:50And I think it was Carl Sagan that said like,

25:56There either are a lot of aliens or none and the either they're equally terrifying

26:06If there are a lot of aliens well, I mean the invasion ship slash

26:12You know bug infestation just you know like

26:19Starship trooper style well. Yeah, I mean it's like it's an an an civilization might just view us as like a bug infestation

26:26I know it's like, hey, we left that planet.

26:27It was fine.

26:28Now it's got a bunch of bugs.

26:29Just go fumigate it, you know?

26:31Like, refumigate a house.

26:34That's certainly possible.

26:35And then, but if there are no aliens,

26:37well, could it be that all civilizations are just

26:40destroyed before they become interstellar?

26:44You know?

26:45So I want to be clear.

26:48To the best of my knowledge, there

26:51is no evidence for alien life on Earth.

26:54There's no evidence for alien life.

26:57There's no direct evidence for alien life.

27:00No, and if somebody says, oh, what about this alien

27:03for sighting or whatever, I'm like, listen,

27:08it's got to be at least as good as a 7-Eleven or ATM cam.

27:12OK?

27:15If somebody's got at least like an iPhone 1 level camera,

27:19like something, you know?

27:20The problem with that is it's just too easy to fake things

27:22today, too.

27:24yeah sure i would be the fish at least try hard and they're in taking you familiar

27:28with uh... commander david freyvers account of uh... the tiktak

27:33ufot the encountered off of the uh... coast of san diego

27:38let you know lex lex friedman yeah

27:40lex friedman interviewed him on

27:42is podcast and i interviewed as well and if you ever

27:45get a chance to listen to lex's uh... conversation with them it's really

27:48excellent with this guy is uh...

27:50naval fighter pilot and talked about this thing that they tracked on radar that

27:54went from

27:55more than sixty thousand feet above sea level to one foot in less than a

27:58second

27:59shaped like a tiktok no

28:01visible sign of propulsion

28:03uh... blocked radar

28:06uh... actively jammed their tracking systems and then went to their pre-determined

28:11point that they were supposed to uh... that the uh... the fighter jet was supposed to

28:15scramble to

28:16went to it uh... thirty miles away

28:18in

28:20couple seconds. They have no idea how it did it. They don't know what it is.

28:23And these guys that were working for the Navy off the coast said they

28:28encountered them several times. They didn't know what they were. They didn't

28:32know what to do. They just did something. They do. They have video of it.

28:35They have video of it. You ever see the New York Times article that

28:42came out in 2017 about this stuff? No. Yeah. There was a New York Times article

28:47in 2017 that was detailing this and there's a couple of other, there's a couple other different

28:53sightings that were very similar. They were trying to figure out what these things were and why and

28:57it was also in the COVID relief package that the CIA was supposed to release. Yeah, the politicians

29:04trying to figure out what all this shit is. And so they try to get them to release all the

29:08information they have within 180 days. Honestly, I think I would know if there are aliens.

29:13I would hope so. That's why I'm asking you. No, I I I I be jumping on that like you're like you should watch that conversation with Lex

29:22It's like here's the thing

29:25Do you think that they would want us to know?

29:28Or do you think they would just be observing and making sure we don't blow ourselves up with?

29:34Sure our subtle

29:38I mean if they wanted us to know obviously they could just for sure you know show up and walk down Main Street

29:43You know, okay, I'm an alien check me out. You know, right? He has my spaceship

29:47I just land in the middle of Times Square. I'll be like right okay, or hover over downtown LA. Yeah, yeah

29:52We were like okay. We believe you

29:55So whatever though there they are very subtle very subtle these aliens

30:00How often do you think about it?

30:02Zero zero even though you're thinking about interplanetary travel you don't really think about aliens

30:09No, I mean if they show up. I'm like great. Okay. No, this is new information

30:13But we...

30:14What an interesting way of putting it.

30:20This is new information.

30:21Listen, your information, like where are you guys up till now?

30:25So anyway, listen, if I see some evidence for aliens, I'll be the first to be like,

30:34ah, aliens, you know.

30:35Right, then you'll investigate, but until then you think it's kind of a waste of time?

30:39Yeah.

30:40It certainly seems like a waste of time if nothing's happened so far.

30:43You think about all the people that have been researching aliens for their whole life and

30:48they have very little to show for it.

30:51Well, you know, there's other than cool stories.

30:54Yeah.

30:55I mean, we have archaeologists going all over the world looking at things, you know, where

31:00there's this people.

31:02If we would have find something like, let's say, like a cube of titanium, just like a

31:06one inch cubititanium, see in the middle of the pyramid,

31:10I feel like aliens for sure,

31:11there's no way they could have made a titanium back in it.

31:15There's no way, that's hard.

31:18That's all, one little, don't even need a computer.

31:20Like a computer would be like,

31:21hey, wow, computers, they didn't have computers back then,

31:23so it must be aliens.

31:24But even just like some advanced metallurgy, anything.

31:29Like, we can say anything like that.

31:32Right. Nothing like that that we could point to that we can't do.

31:38Everything that we found archaeologically is consistent with the time,

31:43the technology they had at that time.

31:45Archaeologically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you just talked about old stuff. Yeah.

31:49Yeah. Just throughout history. It's not like, like,

31:52like if aliens visit or there would be something buried somewhere,

31:55I think we haven't seen anything. So anyway,

32:00I mean, maybe they're aliens, but they're very subtle.

32:03If they're just very, they're being pretty shy.

32:06So, as far as we can tell, there's none.

32:11So, nor are we seeing signals from any other solar system or anything like that.

32:20And the things that on a galactic time scale, even with sub-light travel, you could absolutely

32:27colonize the whole galaxy.

32:29some of the neighboring galaxies.

32:31So if you gave, if you said a million years with car, with, with, and say, there's no

32:37new physics, could you colonize the galaxy in a million years?

32:41Absolutely, the entire galaxy.

32:42So you would start with Mars, build bases on Mars, then use Mars to jump off to all

32:46these other planets, set up places there, and over thousands of years, easily.

32:51Yeah, kind of like, you know, hop from one solar system to the next and yeah.

32:57It seems like that's imperative.

33:01That has to happen if the human civilization is going to survive.

33:04Because our planet is just, we're too subject to natural disasters and our own folly and

33:10if the species is going to survive, we kind of have to escape.

33:13It's mostly about the species.

33:14I mean, there have been some real doozies of like, you know, massive meteors and super

33:20volcanoes and continents of Moodle over the place and Earth's been a snowball and super

33:26hard. If you read the geological history of Earth, it's very long and complicated. And

33:36there have been so many extinction events, not just a few. The Permian extinction event,

33:44that was a real rough one, where it's well over 90% of all species died out. That doesn't

33:52tell the whole story because a huge chunk of the remaining species were fungi and you

33:58know like sponges and stuff like that you know like if you if are you are you a sponge

34:03okay you're probably doing okay they're still around are you a mushroom you should do you

34:10like being in the dark and feasting on dead dead that dead plant and animal matter okay

34:16But if you're like a human, you're screwed.

34:18Yeah.

34:19So.

34:20Well, didn't people got down to, there was just a few thousand of us at one point in

34:24time because of a super volcano, I think Indonesia.

34:28I think it was only 60, 70,000 years ago.

34:31Yeah.

34:32They've been a number of sort of evolutionary choke points.

34:37And the last ice age must have been pretty rough too.

34:40And a lot of species got wiped out then.

34:43Is that part of what motivates you?

34:46motivates you to want to do this and to put people on Mars and to start traveling

34:53and get people traveling through the galaxy. Yeah so philosophically I'm I'm

35:01in the Douglas Adams sort of School of Thought which is that the universe is

35:07the answer and we need to figure out like what questions to ask to better

35:11understand the answer that is the universe. So we want to expand the scope and scale of

35:16consciousness, increase our understanding of the universe, like to understand why we

35:22hear where we come from, where we go, and what's this all about. And in order to, I

35:30don't know, just understand the meaning of life, we have to expand, expand the scope

35:38open scale of life and the consciousness, which may be digital and biological in the

35:47future.

35:50And get past at least one of the great filters, which is to become a multi-panted species.

35:57You know, a species that does not become multi-ponetary is simply waiting around until there is some

36:04extinction event.

36:05be the self-inflicted or external.

36:09So we've got to be a multiplantist.

36:13Also, that's way more exciting.

36:15That's like, do you want a future where we're out there

36:17among the stars exploring the universe,

36:20or do you want a future where we're stuck on Earth forever?

36:22I think you want the super exciting future,

36:24where we're out there exploring the galaxy.

36:28That sounds great to me.

36:31And I think it's worth 1% of our resources, something like that.

36:36Maybe more, but at least 1%.

36:39Well, it's in all the most exciting sci-fi movies.

36:42Yeah.

36:43Yeah, if you saw a sci-fi movie and they didn't have spaceships,

36:47you'd be like, what's going on there?

36:49That's something terrible must have happened.

36:51Well, we always assumed when we were kids

36:54that we would be traveling to the moon and back and traveling

36:58all over space by now.

37:00So Space 1999 was a show when I was a kid that was interplanetary travel.

37:04Remember they had spaceships out there and mother ships.

37:07They thought 1999 by then for sure it would happen.

37:11The problem is we need more Elon Musk's.

37:14There's not a lot of people that really dedicate all their time and energy to do something like

37:18this.

37:19It really does.

37:20It's a really fascinating thing about the species.

37:22It takes a few unique individuals that are motivated to do something like this and have

37:28the resources and the intelligence and the, you can figure out how to organize people

37:34to get something like this done. Not a lot of you.

37:40Well it takes this, there's a lot of smart talented people at SpaceX and at Tesla and

37:46that's how we get things done. But yeah, I mean part of the reason why SpaceX is still

37:53privately, privately held, well we have a lot of investors and everyone at the company

37:58he's given stock is that the time horizon for SpaceX is long.

38:05It's like, what's the market for transporting things to Mars?

38:13Well, no market is no one there.

38:18That sounds pretty risky.

38:20And the public company, the feedback loop tends to be

38:25maybe a year to four years or even quarterly.

38:28And it's like, well, this is like 10 years, 20 years out.

38:32And I didn't probably answer your question earlier,

38:34which is like when we, when I think we can go to Mars,

38:37I mean, I think possibly as soon as five years from now.

38:42Really?

38:43Yeah, but then to have a,

38:45then you gotta build out the base

38:47and then you gotta build out the city.

38:51So the first thing you gotta build is like,

38:52Okay, you gotta generate energy.

38:56So you got like giant solar panel, farm, you know.

39:00And then you've gotta have propellant production.

39:03So you gotta make fuel in the oxygen

39:05and you gotta grow food, grow plants

39:09and like all the things in industry for life support.

39:11So does everything have to be done in the greenhouse?

39:14Is some sort of a dome?

39:15Yeah.

39:16So there's, is there a long-term possibility

39:19of terraforming?

39:20Yes, long term we can make, if you just warm Mars up,

39:25there's a lot of frozen CO2 and frozen water

39:30that would liquify, the CO2 would satisfy the atmosphere,

39:35the liquid water would form oceans and lakes.

39:39So basically a lot of frozen water

39:43and frozen CO2 on Mars.

39:45Now would you warm it up?

39:47Well, there's a few ways to tackle that problem.

39:51That'll obviously be up to the Martians, but I don't know.

39:54You could have giant solar reflectors.

39:58You could create like miniature suns over the poles or something like that.

40:04What?

40:05Well, it can't be gravitationally contained, but you could just have a, you know, have

40:10it just do giant thermonuclear explosions every few seconds.

40:16The sun is a giant thermonuclear reactor in the sky.

40:19If you want to know what like, hey, what is it like to be exposed to thermonuclear radiation?

40:23You can go stand outside in the middle of the day.

40:25My 10-year-old said, if space has no air and fire needs air, how does the sun stay burning?

40:34She loves to do that.

40:36She looks at you like she's super smart.

40:38Right.

40:39With this good question, little one.

40:42Yeah, there's a lot of interesting things about the sun.

40:46The sun is converting, I think, four or five million tons of mass to energy every second.

40:54So E equals empty squared.

40:57So that's a lot.

40:59It's a lot.

41:00Yeah.

41:01And it's not even a big sun.

41:02It's not even a big sun.

41:03So four or five megatons per second, every second, every day, for billions of years.

41:10So what kind of engineering would be involved in creating a mini sun that you hover above

41:14the poles?

41:16So I mean the sun is the, it's a gravitationally contained reaction.

41:22So you need a lot of mass.

41:25So if you don't have a lot of mass, you can just, that's why you'd have like explosions,

41:29just like little pulsing things, like a pulsing sun.

41:33And yeah, as some people have like said, well, if you add it up, all the nuclear weapons

41:37on Earth, that wouldn't even be that much.

41:40I'm like, yeah, because they're small.

41:42We could make way bigger nuclear bombs than the current ones.

41:45like what's the point? Well if you want to make an artificial sun you would then you just use a lot

41:49more hydrogen. That would be something. Right, Tim or deuterium. They would have to construct on

41:53Mars. Yeah, yeah. And then figure out a way to launch it. Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, honestly, not that

42:01hard. I mean they could do this without rarely even having computers. So it's back in the day.

42:11But you can also do it with like, yes, solar reflectors.

42:16I don't know, somehow if you want to make it look like Earth, you got to warm it up.

42:24So in hundreds of years from now or whatever it would take, people would eventually figure

42:30some way out.

42:31Yeah, you could tear for Mars and make it be like Earth.

42:34Then we could bring, we could take life from Earth and breathe life into Mars.

42:39There's nothing living on the surface of Mars.

42:43Yeah, nothing.

42:45It's cold.

42:46Yeah.

42:47There's a lot of ultraviolet.

42:50The combination of being cold and having a lot of ultraviolet radiation, that's the

42:58killer combo.

43:00Just being cold, then bacteria could survive.

43:06or just UV, but warm, the bacteria can repair themselves.

43:10But if they're frozen and they get blasted with the UV, they can't repair themselves

43:14if they're frozen.

43:15And isn't the speculation that at one point in time Mars did have an atmosphere?

43:19Mars was different than it is now?

43:22Yeah.

43:23It once had quite a dense atmosphere and it would have seemed most likely to have had

43:30oceans and lakes.

43:32now they're frozen and covered in dust.

43:35And that orange color you see is iron oxide.

43:41So there's this quite a lot of iron, just rust.

43:45For a while there they thought, well maybe Mars was like

43:47some ancient civilization.

43:50Do you remember the face on Mars, I think?

43:52Sure.

43:55There's a guy that was completely, he was fascinating.

43:59Richard Hoegland, is that his name?

44:02See if that's the guy's name, but he's with all due respect,

44:06out of his fucking mind.

44:07He was making all these incredibly bizarre connections,

44:12like measurements from this rock to that rock

44:15and using all this mathematics to prove

44:16that this symmetry was impossible in nature,

44:20and this was all created by civilization,

44:23that this face was like some sort of a ancient shrine

44:28ancient shrine to whatever being lived there before.

44:33There it is.

44:33Monument's Tomorrow is Richard Hoeglin,

44:34that's the guy's name.

44:35I used to listen to him on Art Bell.

44:38It's crazy.

44:39It was just, I mean, I don't know if he's schizophrenic.

44:42Maybe he's just smarter than all of us.

44:45But Jamie Shakin' is head.

44:48I think aspirationally, you want to believe

44:50things proportionate to the evidence,

44:51not inversely proportionate to the evidence.

44:53Well, he was definitely inversely proportionate

44:55to the evidence.

44:56It was very strange.

44:58It was one of those ones where I had to stop listening,

45:00because I felt like I was going crazy too.

45:03He was so invested in this idea.

45:07Again, maybe he's right.

45:09I don't think so.

45:11No.

45:12I doubt it.

45:12Well, then they had subsequent voyages

45:15where they made high-resolution scans of the exact same area,

45:19and it looked very different without the same shadows.

45:21It just looked like rocks.

45:25Yeah, Mars kind of looks like, I don't know, like some

45:28Arizona desert or something like that.

45:30What do they think happened?

45:31They think it was hit?

45:32What, an asteroid hit?

45:33Well, everything got hit with light asteroids over time.

45:35They think that that's what killed the environment there?

45:38The atmosphere?

45:39Well, the atmosphere, so Mars has lower gravity than Earth,

45:44and it does not have a strong magnetic field.

45:47So over time, there's over billions of years,

45:51the atmosphere will be gradually eroded by the solar wind and having less gravity.

46:06The smaller you are, the less atmosphere you're going to have.

46:17Generating the atmosphere on Mars, it would eventually erode.

46:20But we're talking about hundreds of millions of years to billions of years type of thing.

46:23There are plenty of time to figure things out.

46:26For us, we mean.

46:27Yeah, yeah.

46:28Yeah.

46:29So, but do you think that Mars is their atmosphere eroded quicker because it's just

46:33smaller?

46:34That's a factor.

46:35Yeah.

46:36I mean, like if you look at, say, asteroids or, you know, they don't really have, like

46:43Sirius, it was a pretty big asteroid, but they don't really have an atmosphere.

46:46The moon doesn't really have an atmosphere.

46:49So that doesn't have an atmosphere.

46:51Technically, there's a tiny amount of rarefied gas,

46:55but it's not a real atmosphere.

46:57Did you pay attention to all the guy who's the chair

47:00of the Harvard Astronomy Department, Avi Lobe,

47:04who was recently, there was a bunch of stories in the news

47:06because he believes that an object that came through

47:09our solar system in 2017 was possibly extraterrestrial

47:13in origin?

47:15Yeah, whatever, your mommy burger.

47:19Yeah, he thinks that there's a 90,

47:22apparently he's a 91% possibility

47:25he was shaped like a...

47:25Your mama asteroid.

47:28Yeah, umama, it was a Hawaiian name.

47:32Okay.

47:33Yeah, it was a Hawaiian name.

47:34It sounds like your mama.

47:35Yes, it was like your mama.

47:36Yeah.

47:38Umama or something like that.

47:40Yeah, yeah, yeah.

47:41because it was discovered in Hawaii,

47:43so you could have a Hawaiian name.

47:45Yeah, well anyway, so I think a fundamental test

47:53of human civilization is are we going to become

47:55a multi-paint civilization

47:59before something cataclysmic happens?

48:01Now I'm pretty optimistic about the future,

48:03so I'm not thinking like we're, you know,

48:06civilization's about to end anytime soon.

48:09But there's a chance that it will.

48:12Like Stephen Hawking before he died was like,

48:13He thought it was around 1% of centuries, something like that, I believe.

48:18It's not 1% chance over 100 years.

48:24It's 99% chance of making it.

48:28I think he's probably about right.

48:31So 1% chance per century.

48:34As the centuries go on, there's less of a chance?

48:36No, it's more of a chance.

48:38So because we become more intelligent, more resources,

48:42and possibly the ability to escape Earth.

48:45Yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know,

48:48Russian roulette with, you know,

48:50asteroids, nine barrels of empty.

48:52Quick, quick, quick.

48:54Eventually.

48:56It's gonna get us.

48:56Yeah.

48:57You said something that I thought was really interesting.

49:00The meaning of life.

49:03Do you think there is a meaning to life?

49:09Well, I think arguably the meaning of life

49:10is to understand the nature of the universe and figure out what the meaning of life is.

49:17So like I said, I think we don't quite know the right question to ask.

49:24And if we learn more about the universe, if we expand the scope and scale consciousness,

49:29then we are better able to ask the questions about the answer that is the universe.

49:34But when you keep going with that, like where does it go?

49:38I don't know. That's why if I knew we're like, okay, case closed. We can die now.

49:45The problem I always have with that is that do I want there to be a meaning to this because it

49:51gives sense of purpose to finite life forms? I think that there's a lot to understand about

49:57the universe that we don't understand. There is a good time there. I have a beverage.

50:01Absolutely. So let's see. Alcohol is our one. What's our two? Our two? Well, I don't think

50:07I think marijuana is legal in Texas.

50:09And the last time, I don't have to remind you,

50:12there was some problems involved.

50:14Yes.

50:15Ultimately not though, right?

50:19Well, it's like temporary.

50:22Oh, that's sued over, right?

50:23Didn't it?

50:24CBD is legal here.

50:26CBD doesn't do anything.

50:29Does it?

50:30No.

50:30I think that's fake.

50:31No, no, it definitely does something for inflammation.

50:34It does.

50:35Yeah, for sure.

50:36How much CBD do you have to have before you notice it?

50:39Well, physically or...

50:41Yeah.

50:42Yeah.

50:43Physically, you don't have to have a lot.

50:44Physically, CBD works great for people with arthritis and people with sore muscles

50:50and things like that.

50:51Cheers.

50:52Yeah, no.

50:53CBD definitely works for that.

50:55But as far as psychoactive effects, not much.

50:58It relieves anxiety for people.

51:00Okay.

51:01It helps people sleep, especially when it's combined with things like melatonin

51:08You know things on those lines, but it doesn't get you high

51:12Yeah

51:17The people that do mix CBD with THC from muscle creams though and that doesn't get you high either

51:22But it increases the effectiveness. Okay. Yeah, there's some some creams that are really good that people like that have

51:28THC and CBD in it

51:30Alright. So you like have like sunscreen or something and then I mean why not just throw it in there.

51:37Why not? Yeah. Well it's just it's great for soreness. It just smells like weed.

51:43Yeah it doesn't smell like weed doesn't. No. No. Some of it does though.

51:47So with that said thing about anything that's unregulated right like hippies are making it.

51:51That's always the problem. You're quality control. Yeah no quality control. That's the problem with edibles.

51:56They're made by a bunch of crazy people cooking them up in some you know

52:01Chula Vista apartment somewhere and really don't know what's in there

52:07So well anyway, so we're gonna make life multiplayer before too late. Yeah, I think that makes sense

52:12Yeah, I mean why not it's also it's be fun and exciting and even if you don't go you can just watch on TV. Yeah

52:18Yeah, yeah, it's all cool. I mean like yeah, I mean you know

52:22So, it's not like attendance is mandatory here.

52:26It'll be dangerous and people might die.

52:30Well, for sure they're gonna die, right?

52:31Yeah, yeah.

52:32Like sometimes, maybe you're surprised.

52:34So people think that the idea is like, oh, Mars is gonna be an escape hatch, some luxury

52:39resort for rich people.

52:40I'm like, no, it's like high probability of death relative to Earth.

52:44It's long journey.

52:47Food's probably not great.

52:48A lot of hard work.

52:49No sunlight.

52:50on like, yeah, it's like, it sounds like, you know,

52:54Shackleton's at for the Antarctic,

52:56where it's like, it's dangerous,

52:59it's a long journey, food's bad, you know,

53:02might not make it back.

53:04But if you do, it'll be glorious.

53:06Yeah, it's interesting how much people adapt

53:09when they're faced with a real problem.

53:12Like, if we knew that we only had a certain amount

53:14of time left, like we knew an asteroid was absolutely

53:18headed our way and it was gonna kill most of the people

53:20on this planet, you would see people scrambling

53:22for something like that.

53:24Like look, I moved to Texas just to get the fuck out

53:27of LA because I felt like that was dying.

53:30I was like we gotta get out of here.

53:31And I never thought I was gonna move out of LA like that.

53:35It happened very quickly, but people adapt

53:38when they realize that this is,

53:40you have to do something.

53:42If we had to do something, we had to go to Mars

53:44and had a set up shop there.

53:45Yeah, I think it's important for the future of humanity and consciousness.

53:50And like I said, we want to get past the Great Filter.

53:53It might turn out that when we got there exploring the galaxy,

53:57we might find a whole bunch of dead one planet civilizations.

54:01And they just never made it to the next planet.

54:04Ghost towns.

54:05Yeah, strange ghost towns.

54:08It's like if you, we'll go through the archaeological ruins

54:12of like ancient Babylonians and Sumerians

54:15and trying to decode their writing,

54:19like what the hell would there be in hieroglyphics?

54:23Isn't that a problem with us now that everything has become digital,

54:26everything's stored on microchips and hard drives,

54:29and if something catastrophic happened,

54:32and you don't have the ability to access all that stuff,

54:36we're kind of starting from scratch.

54:38Yeah, absolutely.

54:39Absolutely. It's kind of problematic that things aren't children's stone. You know, they used to be children's stone.

54:44They're like, okay, now, you know, it's kind of a pain in the ass to destroy stone and the stone lasts a long time.

54:49Yeah.

54:50So we still have a lot of writing from ancient Romans because they chose a lot of stuff in stone.

54:55Or the Egyptians.

54:56Or the Egyptians. Yeah, exactly. Man, the Egyptians were really went to town with the hieroglyphics.

55:00Even the Sumerians, you know, the cuneiforms carved in the clay tablets.

55:05Absolutely.

55:06Yeah.

55:07But I kind of wish they'd said more.

55:09Yeah, exactly.

55:10Like us.

55:11And like, our stuff is, yeah, it's not going to last for a long time.

55:16I mean, there's sort of aspects of us, of us, of us stuff that would last for a long

55:20time.

55:21But a lot of the interesting things are going to be lost forever.

55:25You know, for when we did the Falcon Heavy test flight, that normally when, you know,

55:33The first place companies do a rocket test flight,

55:36they put something boring on like a concrete block

55:39because they don't want to risk an expensive satellite.

55:42And so it's like, well, we gotta do something,

55:44that's not very inspiring.

55:45It's concrete blocks, and one of the least inspiring things

55:47could do so.

55:49That's toward a friend of mine.

55:50And he said, hey, well, what about putting a Tesla on that?

55:54And I was like, hey, that's not a good idea.

55:56I'm gonna go into my garage.

55:57I'll put that one in there.

55:59So I put my car on the rocket.

56:00And then we we want to see how father rocket could go. So I'd like just you know floor it. Let's go maximum delta V. So

56:09I thought it would probably blow up and I had this image of like a man like you know

56:14this thing could go could blow up on the pad and then

56:17There's like a tire bouncing down the road and then the Tesla logo just lands bam right in front of the camera

56:24It's like one of the things that like this is a movie, you know

56:26So that's kind of one of the possible outcomes.

56:30And unfortunately, it didn't blow up.

56:31And now my car is orbiting Mars.

56:34Wow.

56:35Yeah.

56:36So now in that car, so not hopefully there's

56:39somebody in the alien civilization in the future

56:41could find that because it'll be like around for like

56:42millions of years.

56:43I've seen the images of it with the.

56:46That looks fake.

56:47It looks fake.

56:47That's how you know it's real.

56:48Is that how you know it's real?

56:50Yeah.

56:50How do the images get to us?

56:53But images are too lame to be fake.

56:57Or they look good, but for example,

56:59the dynamic range of the camera is not enough

57:03to pick up the stars and the vehicle.

57:06Because things are very bright in space.

57:11We don't quite realize it, but in the atmosphere

57:15is making everything a little fuzzy.

57:18And in space, things are super crisp and really reflective.

57:22Yeah, exactly.

57:24So how is that getting to us?

57:26With the image.

57:27Yeah, with a radio.

57:32So the rocket's got a...

57:34How many megapixels is that image?

57:36Not that many, actually.

57:37Really?

57:38No, I mean it's probably a couple megapixels or something like that.

57:40So like an old flip phone?

57:42Yeah.

57:43It's mostly just driven by the...

57:47What's the bandwidth of a video signal?

57:49So what do you have like...

57:50So these are frame graphs from the video signal.

57:53And where's the camera that's taking this photo?

57:57Oh man, our director of photography is awesome.

57:59But it means when this thing gets sent to us,

58:03what is taking an image of this?

58:06There's a camera on a stick.

58:07Really?

58:08Yeah.

58:08And it didn't break off?

58:09No.

58:11I mean, if you thought it might, but there's a camera.

58:16I mean, it's kind of like a fairly wide angle.

58:19And so the camera is actually not that far from the car.

58:23Well, what is that one up there that shows the whole car?

58:25Is that fake?

58:26That's fake.

58:28Is that real?

58:28That's real.

58:29Wow.

58:30This is Don't Panic on the screen.

58:31Yeah.

58:34Don't panic.

58:35Speaking of the Roadster, when is that thing

58:37going to be available?

58:41Next year, Shoroster.

58:41So we're finishing the engineering of it this year.

58:44And so hopefully, you start shipping them next year.

58:46Really?

58:47Yeah.

58:48And we're going to throw some rocket technology in that car.

58:50Yeah, I've heard about that.

58:51What does that mean?

58:53So at a minimum, it would be.

58:55I wanted to hover.

58:58And I'm trying to figure out how to make this thing hover

59:01with like killing people.

59:04Right.

59:05Yeah.

59:05Good call.

59:06Yeah, exactly.

59:07I thought maybe we could make it hover, but not too high.

59:12So maybe it can hover like a meter above the ground

59:15or something like that.

59:17If you plummet, well, out the suspension,

59:19but you're not going to die.

59:21So maybe you're a six feet, I don't know, six feet,

59:24probably okay, I'm not gonna die either.

59:26Probably not.

59:27Probably not.

59:27So if we just put a height limit on,

59:30it'd probably be fine.

59:31And would it be able to travel while it's hovering?

59:34Yeah.

59:35So you'll be able to go six feet off the ground

59:37and go how fast?

59:39Well, you go pretty fast,

59:42but you're gonna be time limited.

59:44Right. So.

59:45Like a jet.

59:46Like a jet fighter.

59:47There's gonna be a super high pressure,

59:49like ultra high pressure air bottle.

59:52Oh.

59:53So the standard roads would have like two back seats,

59:56two like kid seats, you know, in the back,

59:57like small seats like a back of a Porsche or something.

1:00:00Or if you get the, I don't know, the SpaceX option package,

1:00:05then in that place where the two rear seats

1:00:07are would be as a high pressure carbon over wrap pressure vessel.

1:00:13So high, very, you know, I don't know,

1:00:1510,000 PSR's like that.

1:00:17And then a bunch of thrusters.

1:00:21And so at minimum, I'm confident we could do a thruster

1:00:25where the license plate flips down James Bond's dial

1:00:28and there's a rocket thruster behind it.

1:00:30And that gives you three tons of thrust.

1:00:33Oh, for acceleration.

1:00:34Yeah.

1:00:35So that would be on the ground.

1:00:36That would be on the ground.

1:00:37Now this thing would move like a bad out of hell.

1:00:39Jesus crap, but it already goes 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds, right?

1:00:42That's the sedan with the four door.

1:00:45What?

1:00:46Yeah, the new model S model is plaid that we start shipping next month or this month. Yeah is

1:00:52We just tested it on the motor trans back zero to 60 is

1:00:571.96 seconds. I have never driven my Tesla and go my business thing a little fucking faster

1:01:04Yeah, that mean the one I have the model S is 2.4, right? Yeah, which is preposterous. It's so great

1:01:10I take people in it like yeah, they've never experienced anything like it. No in their entire life my friend

1:01:16And it's like, so what's the deal with these Teslas?

1:01:18I go, you want to freak out?

1:01:19You want to see something fucking crazy?

1:01:20I picked him up at the improv,

1:01:22and we drove to the comedy store.

1:01:23And I took him up Laurel Canyon.

1:01:25Are you ready?

1:01:25And I never take it out of ludicrous mode, by the way.

1:01:29I keep it in ludicrous mode all the time.

1:01:31I stomped on the gas, well not the gas, the accelerator.

1:01:34And he started screaming.

1:01:36And he's like, ah, what the fuck?

1:01:39I go, yeah, it's what the fuck, this is crazy.

1:01:41It's crazy.

1:01:42It's crazy.

1:01:43So this is significantly faster than that.

1:01:45Just for the plaid.

1:01:46Yeah, so the new plaid, yeah.

1:01:49It's a half second quicker to 60.

1:01:51Pretty close, yeah.

1:01:52Yeah, like every millisecond really

1:01:55matters when you start getting that fast.

1:01:57I thought plaid was going to ship later in the year.

1:02:00Yeah, we've.

1:02:02You just did it.

1:02:03We managed to make it go faster.

1:02:04Oh, OK.

1:02:06But we're both ways.

1:02:07We're both ways.

1:02:08And the plaid has a wider wheelbase, too, right?

1:02:11It does.

1:02:11Yeah.

1:02:12handles better, is that the idea behind that?

1:02:13Yeah, does that better handling?

1:02:16Like we're trying to get to, on the Notebook ring,

1:02:18get to like the low seven minute mark.

1:02:21Really?

1:02:21Yeah.

1:02:22And then, with further improvements,

1:02:25I think we could bust seven minutes on the Notebook ring,

1:02:28which would be a pretty wicked outcome.

1:02:29What is the record right now at the Nivere ring?

1:02:32Is it the Porsche 918?

1:02:33Like what has the record?

1:02:35Something crazy like that, right?

1:02:36There's no production car.

1:02:39I think no production car has got an under seven.

1:02:41Really?

1:02:42As far as I know.

1:02:43And even the ones that are close that they say

1:02:46all production are, they do a bunch of changes.

1:02:48Right.

1:02:49Like change the tires, aerodynamics.

1:02:52Yeah.

1:02:52Yeah.

1:02:53But it's like, I think there's potential to have a car

1:02:57that as delivered can beat seven seconds on November.

1:03:02Isn't it funny that this is one track that's the gold standard

1:03:05for almost all vehicles?

1:03:06Like if you look at like road and track or motor trends,

1:03:09Do you want to find out how bad ass this new sports car is?

1:03:13It's like what number does it do in the Nurburgring?

1:03:16Well, yeah.

1:03:17Now, Nurburgring to be totally frank

1:03:18is not representative of normal.

1:03:21No.

1:03:22It's not normal.

1:03:22Yeah.

1:03:23It's the hottest one to you can't game it.

1:03:26Right.

1:03:27So but I think for everyday driving,

1:03:31it's the acceleration that really matters.

1:03:33Like it's like you're at a, the light goes green,

1:03:37loom who's across the intersection fastest.

1:03:41The new pladdle do a sub nine second quarter mile

1:03:46and with an extra track speed in a quarter mile

1:03:49of 155 miles an hour.

1:03:51And it's a sedan.

1:03:52Yeah.

1:03:53It's a four door.

1:03:54It can hit 60 miles an hour before it's cleared

1:03:56the intersection.

1:03:57That's insane.

1:03:58Insane.

1:03:59That's insane.

1:04:00Yeah.

1:04:00Wow.

1:04:02It's not comfortably fast.

1:04:03Is that steering wheel legit?

1:04:05Yeah.

1:04:05Is it legal?

1:04:06Yeah, I mean, they use a yolk in Formula One.

1:04:11They don't have a straight-wheel.

1:04:11Right, but you're not on the highway, Formula One car.

1:04:15Yeah, yeah.

1:04:16I like driving like this.

1:04:18Like resting my hand on the top of the wheel.

1:04:20Well, I think autopilot's getting good enough

1:04:23that you want to need to drive most of the time,

1:04:26unless you really want to.

1:04:26I like driving.

1:04:28Oh, yeah.

1:04:28Yeah, I use autopilot sometimes, I mean,

1:04:31but most of the time I drive.

1:04:33I

1:04:35Find it's like you can rest your hand on your knee like that thing and it works great. Anyway, it looks awesome

1:04:41It does look cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's very space-shippy

1:04:44Yeah, yeah, that's great and all the stuff is on the steering wheel now too, right?

1:04:49The blinkers and all that jazz even the horn is like a little button, right?

1:04:55Yeah, when the horn is

1:04:57already

1:04:58Kind of the center of the the steering wheel anyway, but is it still the center of the steering wheel as well?

1:05:03Yeah, isn't it a button I thought on the yoke. I mean there's a button for the horn

1:05:08Yeah

1:05:09Which you have to really I used to have a car that had a button for the horn

1:05:13I think it was an accurate NSX okay, and it had instead of the center hub being the horn there was a button and

1:05:20I never remembered it

1:05:24Well with the

1:05:25There there are no yokes. I mean, they're sorry. There are no stalks there

1:05:29So what this right there's a yoke. There's a yoke, but there's no stalks

1:05:32So the car for example will default to driving in the like if you just get in

1:05:39When you press the brake pedal and then press the accelerator

1:05:42It will figure out whether you want to go backwards and forward. That's crazy. How's that possible? Well, it's just you know

1:05:47It's just looks and sees is there an obstacle in front? Okay, probably don't wag it

1:05:52So you're probably going to go backwards right, but what if you want to go backwards and there's nothing in front of you

1:05:57Yeah, what if it's ambiguous right?

1:06:00So it would it would default to

1:06:03The inverse of whatever you you started and then you can just you can just swipe on the screen and change direction

1:06:10But isn't it easier to just hit like that way to have choice never you'll you'll see it's like you almost never do you do it?

1:06:17Yeah, yeah, so you've been this is something you've driven and it's intuitive

1:06:21Yeah, once you get rid of the stock and have the car figure it out, it's annoying to have a stock after that.

1:06:27Really?

1:06:28It's annoying.

1:06:29You're talking to a guy like manual gearboxes.

1:06:31Sure.

1:06:32I like going...

1:06:34Yeah, I mean I would drive on manual too.

1:06:37It's fun.

1:06:38Yeah, that's cool.

1:06:39Yeah, there's different kinds of cool though.

1:06:41Like, the one where I tell people about the Tesla, I go, listen, I love cars.

1:06:47I love all kinds of cars.

1:06:49but the Tesla makes other cars seem dumb.

1:06:51It does.

1:06:52It makes them seem dumb.

1:06:53It's just so fast, it's so quiet.

1:06:56Everything about it, the navigation screen, it's so big.

1:06:59Like why wouldn't it be big?

1:07:00It's better.

1:07:01It's better to be big.

1:07:02It keeps the software keeps getting upgraded.

1:07:04The navigation system, the ability to just press that button

1:07:07and say navigate to, and then it goes on the internet

1:07:10and finds out what you're looking for.

1:07:11It finds it, restaurants, whatever you're looking for.

1:07:13It's fucking amazing.

1:07:14Oh, there's like a little tip for the Tesla.

1:07:17If you just swipe down on the navigate button,

1:07:21it automatically figures out if you want to go

1:07:22to home or work and navigate there.

1:07:25So if you're at home, and obviously you know

1:07:29how to get to work, but do you know the fastest way

1:07:31to get to work?

1:07:32So to use our-

1:07:33So to use our-

1:07:34Yeah, take it, like what's the on a traffic adjusted basis?

1:07:36What's the best way to go to work?

1:07:38But how does it adjust?

1:07:39Like what is it getting your data from?

1:07:41It's downloading traffic data from the internet.

1:07:43Okay, so the ways uses traffic data

1:07:45from the internet plus user input.

1:07:47So like it takes an extra beat to get the traffic data

1:07:51from the internet.

1:07:52The idea of ways is that you're getting it

1:07:54from users in real time.

1:07:56Like there's a car accident.

1:07:57People program it in, hey folks,

1:07:59there's a fucking car accident here.

1:08:00And then you get it right away.

1:08:02Whereas on the internet, you're a couple beats behind.

1:08:05Yeah, I mean we get the traffic data from Google.

1:08:07Okay.

1:08:08Also it is for ways.

1:08:09Well, waiting in Google is slightly different

1:08:11but they have some good data sets.

1:08:13Yeah.

1:08:14Yeah.

1:08:14Basically, like I say, there's an accident on the way to work or road closure or something

1:08:18like that.

1:08:19We were helpful to know that before you encountered it.

1:08:21So if you just swipe down, it'll automatically navigate to work.

1:08:25And then also the autopilot will work, basically seamlessly, on the way to work.

1:08:32We have the beta out and the beta is working pretty well.

1:08:36It's going to get super good.

1:08:38And it'll basically be able to drive you all the way to work.

1:08:41Automatically, you don't even like you basically just get in and

1:08:45It'll assume you're going to work if it's money to Friday in the morning

1:08:48Mmm, or you could say program maybe go to school drop the kids over school then go to work

1:08:54And you just do this stuff automatically you want to take it the perspective of all input is error

1:08:59If you have to do something it's an error make the error smaller

1:09:04Hmm well, then put all input all input is error unless there's a game all the way all input is error

1:09:09Well, that's the other thing too, it has games.

1:09:13Like you can play chess.

1:09:15Yeah, you can play chess.

1:09:17We got the backgammon with the aesthetic

1:09:21described in Lost.

1:09:23JJ Abrams asked for it backgammon, so we put it backgammon in.

1:09:26With the Lost aesthetic, it's got this

1:09:30really fun game called Polytopia.

1:09:33I would say that's my top recommendation for any game in the car is play polytopia.

1:09:37What is that?

1:09:40It's like it's a real fun strategy game.

1:09:42That's, you'll see like, it's the top of the list.

1:09:46This is not something you can play while you're driving.

1:09:50Well, I mean, you're not supposed to play while you're

1:09:51doing this.

1:09:52That would be illegal.

1:09:54But will it work while you're on autopilot?

1:09:57So if you're on autopilot, can you also play chess?

1:10:00Well, you have to tap a button that says you're the

1:10:01passenger.

1:10:02Oh.

1:10:04Kind of like waves.

1:10:06Okay, kind of like ways.

1:10:08Yeah, so it's open for interpretation.

1:10:11So if you are some chess freak,

1:10:16you could literally play chess on your way to work.

1:10:18Yeah.

1:10:19Wow.

1:10:21I mean, in the future, as the car becomes more and more

1:10:24autonomous, it's gonna be really about entertainment.

1:10:29Entertainment, productivity.

1:10:31Yeah.

1:10:31So it's just probably an entertainment first and foremost

1:10:35and then productivity as well.

1:10:37Do you have specific things that you do on your way?

1:10:40Do you listen to books on tape?

1:10:41Do you listen to music?

1:10:42Like.

1:10:44Yeah, you should listen to music.

1:10:46Oh, those fucking pirate songs you like.

1:10:49The C. Shati.

1:10:53I thought you were joking about that until you played them.

1:10:55Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:56And then I got pretty catchy.

1:10:57They're pretty catchy.

1:10:58That's what's crazy.

1:10:59I started researching.

1:11:01So you're stuck in your head.

1:11:02I did not know that it was really a thing.

1:11:03Yeah. Yeah.

1:11:05Yeah.

1:11:06Jamie do you know? Do you know about the C-Shanties? Oh my god. Yeah. Well, and it's actually something really appealing about people singing harmony. Yeah, but it's actually way better than you think. It's also like it's got like weird Renaissance fair type thing to it. Thank you for like you're you're all together in this old timey thing, you know pretending. Yeah, very strange. Yeah, it's very odd.

1:11:35So it seems like one of the top reasons to be a pirate would be.

1:11:39We have sea shanties and we have tropical taperns and I don't know.

1:11:46Cool outfits.

1:11:47Yeah.

1:11:48You get to dress up.

1:11:49Yeah, you get to dress up.

1:11:51Yeah.

1:11:52If you lose your leg they got pegs for you.

1:11:53Yeah, you got a parrot.

1:11:54Yeah, parrot.

1:11:55How did that happen?

1:11:57Now what about the truck?

1:11:59When is that thing going to happen?

1:12:02A cyber truck?

1:12:03Yeah.

1:12:04So we're building a big factory here in Austin, that's where we'll make the cyber truck.

1:12:06Yeah.

1:12:08Now, did you decide to do this in Austin from the jump

1:12:11or along the way you decided to move the cyber factory,

1:12:15the cyber truck factory here?

1:12:17Yeah, well, frankly, I was just,

1:12:21well, Austin is a bit like many California.

1:12:23So I was like asking the team in California,

1:12:26all right, where do you wanna,

1:12:28what's your top choice?

1:12:29Or, you know, next big US factory location?

1:12:34Like, where do you wanna spend time?

1:12:36And the number one choice was Austin.

1:12:40And then I was like, okay, okay, what's number two?

1:12:42Silence.

1:12:43Yeah.

1:12:45So.

1:12:48So many California here in Austin.

1:12:50It is a lot, right?

1:12:51Yeah.

1:12:52Yeah.

1:12:53I mean, I hesitate talking about it because I've talked about it too much.

1:12:57But it's very utopian.

1:13:00Yeah.

1:13:01Yeah.

1:13:02Yeah.

1:13:03I think Austin is going to be the biggest room town that America has seen.

1:13:07half century. I think it's a great response to the fucked up government in

1:13:11some of the other cities. Yeah I mean I think you know yeah I think we do need

1:13:19to make sure that Austin does not you know people moving from California

1:13:23don't inadvertently recreate the issues that they have moved that caused them to

1:13:28move in the first place. Yes so the balance of Austin is a blue city in a

1:13:33red state and it's almost like it kind of has to stay red. Not kind of has to I

1:13:39think it does. You need a certain amount of freedoms but then you need the

1:13:42philosophical like there's a there's a bend to Austin that's very progressive

1:13:47and open-minded and artistic and the restaurants are amazing the people are

1:13:51really cool but it needs to be sort of embraced by guns and God freedom.

1:14:00That's part of the whole mixture that makes it work.

1:14:03And it's kind of, there's a metaphor to life in there somewhere.

1:14:09That it's protected by the rest of the philosophy of Texas,

1:14:15which is a wild, crazy place that has more tigers in private collections

1:14:20than in all of the wild of the world.

1:14:23Really?

1:14:23Yes.

1:14:24I had a bit about it in my 2016 special.

1:14:28Texas...

1:14:29A lot of tigers man has more tigers in captivity than all of the wild of planet earth

1:14:36Okay, yeah, well, these are people's yards

1:14:41You can you can in your place wherever you live you could get a fucking zebra

1:14:46No, bro like I have a friend who lives out in dripping Springs. He saw a zebra. Okay a zebra got loose

1:14:53There's elk out there. All right wild elk just roaming around

1:14:56Somebody had an elk, jumped the fence, now there's an elk out there.

1:15:00There's an access deer.

1:15:02In my neighborhood, I saw an access deer.

1:15:03I don't see it, my wife saw it, she described it to me.

1:15:05I know what it is.

1:15:06I said, that's an, she's like, it was like, it had white spots, like a fawn, but it was

1:15:10really big.

1:15:11I'm like, that's an access deer.

1:15:12So there's access deer, yeah, they're from India.

1:15:15And tigers eat them, eventually.

1:15:18But these animals are, they're wild here, because people bought them and they put them

1:15:23in the yard, then they jumped the fence.

1:15:25This place is crazy

1:15:26But that's why it works the reason why it works is because people have so much freedom

1:15:32Yeah, and then you have the University of Texas you have Austin

1:15:36Which is a long history of art and music Stevie ray von and six street and so many great musicians come from here

1:15:43That it's got both of these things together

1:15:45It's got this wild freedom and they embrace both parts of it, you know, this is that's the cool thing about this place

1:15:52Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I've never felt more at home

1:15:55I fucking love it here.

1:15:56That's a cool city.

1:15:58Like I said, it's gonna be the biggest boom town in the American scene and I have 50

1:16:02years at least.

1:16:03Yeah, I agree.

1:16:04Yeah.

1:16:05I think so.

1:16:06Megaboom.

1:16:07Comedy clubs are moving here like crazy.

1:16:08They're moving here left and right.

1:16:10Cap City's reopening.

1:16:11The creek and the cave just announced they're gonna open here.

1:16:14That's cool.

1:16:15I'm trying to open up a place here.

1:16:16There's other clubs I'm trying to open up here.

1:16:18Comedians are moving in here by the droves.

1:16:20It's a wild place.

1:16:22Yeah.

1:16:23Well, yeah.

1:16:24you and Dave,

1:16:26that was great.

1:16:28That was fun. That's a great venue.

1:16:30Yeah, we did that Monday and Tuesday too.

1:16:32It's just, there's something special going on.

1:16:35It just feels fun to be a part of the escape from this wretched

1:16:41dreariness of the COVID pandemic.

1:16:44It was just like this horrible feeling of having no power and no

1:16:48autonomy and being controlled by the government and being told what to

1:16:52It didn't seem logical and you're watching all these businesses fail and you're like there's got to be a better way

1:16:56And like there is no better way wearing extra masks three masks where three masks and stay indoors and holy shit

1:17:04Yeah, yeah, it didn't make any sense. No

1:17:09You can't talk people out of a good panic they sure love it

1:17:12They love panic porn. Yeah fear porn is like that's people's favorite indulgence. Yeah, so I say rule number one

1:17:20Just like Douglas Adams.

1:17:22But there's always people that don't, and those people, they get together and they

1:17:28take solace in the fact that there's other people that also don't want to buy into this

1:17:31shit.

1:17:32Sure.

1:17:33You know?

1:17:34Yeah.

1:17:35Alright, so, or some cool.

1:17:38So the Cybertruck.

1:17:39Yeah, so we're going to build it, I factually is only like two miles away from the airport.

1:17:45Oh.

1:17:46Probably shouldn't tell people that.

1:17:47I mean, you can literally drive, you can see it from the highway.

1:17:51Do you anticipate visitors?

1:17:53Sure.

1:17:54I mean, we'll offer tours and that kind of thing.

1:17:56Will you offer, like, if someone wants to come and get their truck from the factory and

1:18:00drive it off the floor?

1:18:01Ooh, that's exciting.

1:18:03Yeah.

1:18:04That's exciting.

1:18:05We've got a lot of land.

1:18:06Yeah.

1:18:07No, I know.

1:18:08We're 25 hundred acres right next to the airport.

1:18:09That's fucking cool.

1:18:10Yeah.

1:18:11That's amazing.

1:18:12It's cool.

1:18:13So when you're designing this Cybertruck, you had your launch and you showed the shape

1:18:20of it.

1:18:21There was a lot, like I sent you a picture.

1:18:22I remember I sent you a picture.

1:18:23I was like, this is fucking cool.

1:18:24And you're like, this aren't real.

1:18:25And I was like, oh, okay.

1:18:28There's a lot of fake pictures before the initial launch.

1:18:32You tricked a lot of people because people thought it was going to look much, even

1:18:37though the picture that I sent you was pretty fucking cool.

1:18:40you designed was is that ultimately going to be what it really looks like?

1:18:45It's going to be that shape or has there been any revisions?

1:18:50No, that's pretty much what it'll look like with very small differences.

1:18:55You know, we adjusted the size a few percent.

1:18:59But in what way?

1:19:02Well, it's I don't know, like I think around 3% smaller.

1:19:06Why would you decide to do that?

1:19:07Well, you know what would be a couple inches too big for the tunnel.

1:19:11Oh, okay.

1:19:13For the boring tunnel.

1:19:15Well, I mean, we did actually drive through the boring tunnel in a cyber truck with Jay Leno,

1:19:22which was a hair-raising.

1:19:24Because it was a little bit too big.

1:19:26It was pretty snug.

1:19:27Oh, no.

1:19:28Imagine if you killed Jay Leno.

1:19:30Yeah, that'd be awkward.

1:19:31How do we ever explain that?

1:19:35He's the biggest petrol head ever and he even loves your car.

1:19:38Yeah.

1:19:39The Cybertruck is like CGI in real life.

1:19:43You're standing right in front of it and it looks like this is special effect.

1:19:47So that's cool.

1:19:50It'll change the look of the road.

1:19:52Then it looks like anything.

1:19:53It looks like alien technology.

1:19:54Yeah.

1:19:55And when is that coming out?

1:19:57We'll have probably limited production end of this year and blowing production hopefully

1:20:01next year.

1:20:02Have you ever considered something alternative to air inflated tires?

1:20:07Have you seen some of these alternatives that have essentially spaces in between the upper

1:20:13wall and the wheel?

1:20:14Have you thought about that?

1:20:16Yeah, we haven't found a tire that, because you've got to worry about road noise, you've

1:20:27You got to take out potholes and bumps.

1:20:32You got to have good grip.

1:20:34You also want to have low rolling resistance so that you get good range.

1:20:38Those are a lot of things to try to put into one tire.

1:20:44Then if you also say, and it can't have air, it's like this is hard.

1:20:49But you're talking, I'm talking to a guy who's putting people on Mars.

1:20:53You can't figure out an airless tire?

1:20:56It's just, it's an incremental constraint.

1:20:59I'm not saying there won't be such a thing.

1:21:02I think there will be, too precise.

1:21:04Because it seems like we've just gotten way too comfortable with this idea that tires

1:21:07blow out and you get flats.

1:21:10It's very annoying.

1:21:12Flats are annoying.

1:21:13Yeah.

1:21:14Very annoying.

1:21:16Yeah.

1:21:17It non-sport tires, by the way, are much less likely to have flats.

1:21:20Sure.

1:21:21They're more balanced.

1:21:22Yeah.

1:21:23you hit it the edge of a pothole.

1:21:25If you got more rubber wool, you got a longer way to go

1:21:28before you pinch the tire.

1:21:30So sport tires tend to have more flats,

1:21:36and especially in LA potholes, that's worse.

1:21:39Yeah, well, nice.

1:21:40There was one particular pothole on Sunset Boulevard.

1:21:43It would just take out so many more to last,

1:21:46like a boom boom, both sides of the car.

1:21:48Really?

1:21:49Yeah.

1:21:49Damn.

1:21:50Yeah, Stephen Spielberg was actually once.

1:21:55It's like, Stephen Spielberg is like two tires when I was like,

1:22:00God damn it, I know that pothole.

1:22:01I feel like you can pay to fix that.

1:22:07I mean, fix that pothole.

1:22:09It seems like that's actually, you'll be like, man,

1:22:11there sure are a lot of taxes in California if a road is as bad.

1:22:14Yeah.

1:22:15It's the place of mass.

1:22:17Yeah.

1:22:18So ultimately one day that's a possibility

1:22:21of having some sort of an airless tire.

1:22:23Because I've seen prototypes.

1:22:24I've never seen one on an actual car and physical

1:22:27in real life.

1:22:28Yeah, I think the technology is gradually getting there.

1:22:32And I think for something like a robo-taxi

1:22:34where you want to have the tires last for a long time

1:22:37and not go flat, this is going to make a lot of sense.

1:22:40Yeah.

1:22:42But other than that, essentially most of what we saw

1:22:46in the demo is the same.

1:22:47and it's still gonna have, now.

1:22:49Oh yeah.

1:22:50There was the issue with the glass

1:22:51when the accidently shattered.

1:22:54How annoying was that?

1:22:56That was shocking.

1:22:57Yeah.

1:22:58I mean, we literally spent, you know, hours beforehand

1:23:02with like lots of people throwing steel balls at the window.

1:23:07Right.

1:23:09I'm really much of a thrown at least,

1:23:11at least a dozen people must have thrown steel balls.

1:23:14At the same window though?

1:23:15Yeah, same damn window.

1:23:15Isn't that the problem?

1:23:16Yeah, that might, it turns out that might be the problem.

1:23:19If you keep throwing steel bowls,

1:23:22eventually it's gonna break.

1:23:23And I did ask Franz to really wind up and give it all.

1:23:28You know, I should have, I should have,

1:23:30like, take it easy.

1:23:32You know, you don't need to wind up.

1:23:34Yeah, we don't need the fast bowl.

1:23:36But I asked him, I did ask for the fast bowl.

1:23:37And I'm like, okay, let's go for the slightly,

1:23:39not slightly slower bowl.

1:23:41Do you think it was because you guys were hitting

1:23:42the side wall with a sledgehammer?

1:23:44Yeah, yeah. That could be,

1:23:46Like we're trying to figure out how the hell this thing break because I mean we were just

1:23:50bouncing steel balls off at all day.

1:23:53And we think possibly what might have happened there was that hitting it with a sledgehammer

1:23:59might have cracked the base of it.

1:24:00And once you crack the base of it it loses all its strength.

1:24:03And then we just have a hairline fracture and then you hit it anywhere it's going to

1:24:09shatter.

1:24:10Did you recreate that?

1:24:12We didn't.

1:24:14It's also hard with test glass.

1:24:18When you actually do production glass,

1:24:20it's much more of us than demo glass.

1:24:24Because production glass, you have

1:24:32to have massive tools and ovens and everything

1:24:35to make the production glass.

1:24:39That takes a while to do.

1:24:41So the production class is always better than demo glass.

1:24:47Nonetheless, it should have worked.

1:24:50And it was probably because we racked it

1:24:51with a sledgehammer and then threw the steel bullet at it.

1:24:54But it will be bulletproof to hang on.

1:24:59Now why did you decide to do all that,

1:25:02make it bulletproof and make it like,

1:25:04you could hit it with a sledgehammer?

1:25:05Like what was the motivation to make it different

1:25:08than just like a model S?

1:25:09I mean, I think it's like what's cool about a truck?

1:25:12Trucks are tough.

1:25:12And I'm like, okay, what's tougher than a tank?

1:25:15What about a tank from the future?

1:25:16Okay, now you have a tank from the future.

1:25:20Okay. Yeah.

1:25:22That's bulletproof.

1:25:23Yeah.

1:25:24And how's that compared to, you know,

1:25:28way tougher than a regular truck?

1:25:30Look, it's fucking cool.

1:25:32Yeah.

1:25:32I mean, how does it all have character from the future?

1:25:34That shit.

1:25:35I mean, like, Halo with a rocket launcher in the back.

1:25:37Have you thought about doing something like that?

1:25:39Somebody's going to do it for sure.

1:25:40For military use?

1:25:41Yeah, seems like it.

1:25:42I mean, I don't know.

1:25:43That sounds like a refund.

1:25:44I mean, you're cruising around the field

1:25:46and like loving shooting rockets.

1:25:50Now, is there ever a possibility

1:25:52that these things are going to be solar powered?

1:25:54Is that someday, is this solar technology

1:25:57going to get to a point where?

1:25:58It's kind of a surface area issue.

1:25:59So I mean, I think possibly put the cover of the truck bed,

1:26:05you know, put some solar cells in that.

1:26:06So if you just leave it out in the sun, you know, probably recharges a few miles a day

1:26:11type of thing.

1:26:12Oh, it would only be a few miles.

1:26:15But what about one day?

1:26:16Is it possible that technology could evolve to the point where they could extract?

1:26:20No, really?

1:26:21No, it's a, so there's about one kilowatt per square meter of solar energy and then you're

1:26:27going to get, I don't know, probably 20, 25% efficiency.

1:26:31So you got 200 watts a square meter.

1:26:33And then that's assuming that you're normal to the sun.

1:26:36So, you know, like your, you know, at the right angles, basically like, oh, you're facing

1:26:40the sun or not.

1:26:42So you know, when you add all those things up, you say, how many square meters can you

1:26:46really get?

1:26:47And then how many watt hours per mile?

1:26:50So it's basically, if you could do 10 miles a day, you'd be lucky.

1:26:56Really?

1:26:57Yeah.

1:26:58And that's not going to change?

1:26:59No.

1:27:00Mile.

1:27:01That sucks.

1:27:02It'd be cool if it just ran I mean is it possible to make a car entirely of solar panels like the the entire surface of it solar panels

1:27:11Like in a place like LA or somewhere where it's never cloudy and drive around that thing

1:27:18Now you can wait you're gonna burn off energy fast and you can drive if you don't drive that off and that's a different story

1:27:23The only option is to have a solar paneled home and extract the power that way. Yeah, it's a whole panel room

1:27:29How's it got a lot of a lot of area? Yeah?

1:27:31So, you could possibly have some solar thing that unfurls, that has a lot more surface area.

1:27:42So when you park it at work or something like that, it's unfurl.

1:27:45Yeah.

1:27:46But it just needs area.

1:27:48So like I said, think about maybe 200 watts a square meter, maybe 20 watts a square foot,

1:27:57something like that.

1:27:58Now the range of the new cars is much longer.

1:28:04Yes.

1:28:05Like what is the range of the standard model S

1:28:07that's available right now?

1:28:08It's like 300 and...

1:28:11Yeah, 353, 60, I don't know, it's a lot.

1:28:13And what's actually the new one,

1:28:15the new Long Range Model S is over 400 mile range.

1:28:18The new one.

1:28:19But then, even the old one, the old one

1:28:21was even 400 miles.

1:28:22The new one was 400 miles too.

1:28:23But the plaid will get you up to...

1:28:26So the current plat is going to be around 400 miles range.

1:28:30There's plat plus.

1:28:33If you, that's maybe a year from now,

1:28:35that'll be on the order of 500 miles.

1:28:38That's a lot.

1:28:39I hear drive 500 miles anyway.

1:28:41Well, if you drive across country.

1:28:43Yeah.

1:28:44Pretty rare.

1:28:45I mean, like, you know.

1:28:47For most commuters.

1:28:49Yeah.

1:28:50I mean, even if you're driving 100 miles an hour, you know?

1:28:53It's still, you know, you still gonna be driving for a while before you run out of battery.

1:28:59And the truck, what is the Cybertrux range gonna be?

1:29:05We have to pick a range actually for the initial version.

1:29:10It'll be some number over 300 miles.

1:29:13Now when you say pick a range, in terms of like the battery array that you put in?

1:29:18Yeah, actually like what's the pack size?

1:29:19So do you have to take into account how much weight it's going to add, how long it's going

1:29:24to take to charge?

1:29:26Yeah.

1:29:27I mean, there's basically the things that matter are the frontal area times the drag

1:29:32coefficient for aerodynamic drag and then rolling resistance, which is a function of

1:29:38mass and the tire efficiency.

1:29:42So this has a big frontal area.

1:29:46It's not very aerodynamic and the tires are not super,

1:29:52but they're not optimized for long range.

1:29:54It looks very aerodynamic, the truck.

1:29:57You actually don't want, if you don't want truck angles.

1:30:00You don't want truck angles.

1:30:01See, that's the problem.

1:30:02It looks to me, yeah, that's slicing right through,

1:30:05like a knife.

1:30:09You want it rounded.

1:30:10You want it rounded.

1:30:10Yeah.

1:30:12So you want the air to have like smooth,

1:30:15If you're a little air particle, you don't want the bumps.

1:30:18Right.

1:30:19You want to smooth, just like you're driving over the car.

1:30:22No bumps.

1:30:23Right.

1:30:24Just easy going.

1:30:27Sharp angles are bad for aero.

1:30:29So that aero will contribute to the lack of range.

1:30:34So it'll minimize the range somewhat.

1:30:36It'll have a drag coefficient that's pretty good for a truck.

1:30:40Because in closing the bed at an angle, that helps a lot.

1:30:44like normal trucks go down the highway, it's like a barn door.

1:30:47Right, right.

1:30:48I mean, it's like having a parachute in the back.

1:30:51You might as well be flying it.

1:30:52Yeah.

1:30:53It's like not far different from driving with a parachute.

1:30:56Yeah.

1:30:57So you can think of like drag as basic.

1:30:59It's like the integrated pressure profile over the car.

1:31:01So if you create a low pressure zone in the back of your car, where you don't like fill

1:31:07in the gap, like you're cruising through the air, you're making a hole through the air,

1:31:11and the air is trying to fill in the gap.

1:31:13And if you've got like a sharp transition into the truck bed, it's a big low pressure

1:31:20zone basically.

1:31:22And that's bad for drag.

1:31:26So having the slope back where that's got the truck bed cover, that's very helpful.

1:31:36But the sharp angles are not helpful.

1:31:38So the range of that truck is yet to be determined.

1:31:43You're trying to figure it out.

1:31:44Man, it'll be over 300 miles.

1:31:45What about the Roadster?

1:31:54I mean, some of these things, we got to decide, like, what's

1:31:57actually the best product?

1:31:59How much range do you really want?

1:32:03If you ask people that say, well, I want 600 miles range.

1:32:07I'm like, OK, well, that means most of the time you're

1:32:10rolling around a battery pack you're not going to use.

1:32:14And it'll slow you down.

1:32:15It'll inhibit handling.

1:32:17Yeah.

1:32:18Others, like why not have a car that's got a fuel tank

1:32:20that has 2,000 miles range?

1:32:21You know, go and pull it up like once every three months

1:32:25or something, you know?

1:32:26But they basically figured out actually carrying that much

1:32:30fuel around is not worth it.

1:32:34Right.

1:32:34So I think there's some of the stuff

1:32:39you can do for kind of like bragging rights and like, but then, you know,

1:32:42bragging rights are going to get old fast.

1:32:44So it's more like, what are you going to like on a day to day basis?

1:32:48What's like, what maximizes the area under the curve of under happiness?

1:32:52So it'll have enough range that you will never have to worry about range.

1:32:56Let me put it that way.

1:32:58Okay.

1:32:58Yeah.

1:32:59So someone who can drive from LA to San Francisco, no problem,

1:33:03Austin to Dallas, no problem.

1:33:05So a few hours of driving.

1:33:07many hours driving.

1:33:09Now I heard you talk recently about the possibility of a van, like

1:33:15sprinter van style.

1:33:17Yeah, now a van, because you got a big flat area, that's actually where

1:33:24solar could start to make a little more sense.

1:33:28Yeah, because you could have a lot of area.

1:33:30So for the roof.

1:33:31Yeah.

1:33:32And I think you also have like maybe a roof where

1:33:36It's solar and then when it's stationary, maybe it goes out and provides shade and maybe

1:33:44triples your area or something like that.

1:33:46If you go like, okay, now tripling area and you've got a big flat surface, you could start

1:33:53having maybe charging enough that you could start getting like 30 miles a day.

1:33:59That's interesting because there's a lot of people that use those for camping.

1:34:03My friend Tom Green.

1:34:04Tom Green. I think so, yeah. He used to be on MTV and actor and comedian. He's

1:34:10traveling across the country right now and one of those vans. Like Style Van, I

1:34:15think he got a Ram, a Dodge Ram for a Sprinter Van style. Yeah. And if you had

1:34:20something like that and he has an awning that extends and he's got a bunch of

1:34:24camping and does a podcast out of it. If you had something like that, it seems like...

1:34:29I think that would be great. You know, like you could have like a van that just, you

1:34:33Even if the apocalypse came around, you still, you can still drive.

1:34:37Yeah.

1:34:38Yeah.

1:34:39And maybe you can even have some sort of an external tent that you could set up that's

1:34:43just a solar tent that could juice you up during the day or something on those lines.

1:34:49Yeah.

1:34:50There's options.

1:34:51There's options.

1:34:52Solar, it's all about area.

1:34:53Yeah.

1:34:54Yeah.

1:34:55It's called 200, watch the square meter, maybe 20, watch the square foot.

1:34:57And I don't understand that there's no way that that's ever going to get more efficient.

1:35:02No. No, I mean, the sun, the solar incidence is somewhat coincidentally roughly 1,000 watts

1:35:15per square meter. Or, you know, in a 10 foot by, sorry, I'd like, it's 10 square feet

1:35:24ish, there's 1,000 watts.

1:35:30And then that includes all the heating and everything else.

1:35:34So they have to say, OK, for a photoelectric effect,

1:35:38you're going to capture photons within a certain band.

1:35:41And you're going to get them all.

1:35:45Because basically, what happens with the photon hits the

1:35:49electron and gets it to jump over a gap and run around to

1:35:53the other side.

1:35:53That's what happens with the photoelectric effect.

1:35:56It's just, it hits a photon with the right energy,

1:36:03hits an electron, electron gets excited, jumps over a gap

1:36:07in the semiconductor, and races around to the other side.

1:36:10That's the electron, and then just creates an electric circuit.

1:36:14So you have to say, OK, well, how are you going to get those,

1:36:19you know, electrons with just the right energy,

1:36:23what kind of photon incoming energy you've got.

1:36:26I say, yeah, it feels pretty much top style,

1:36:28around 30% efficiency for a silicon system.

1:36:32Now, if you have triple gun junction galley-mossenide,

1:36:35you do a lot better, but that's very expensive.

1:36:39So, but if you're talking about like,

1:36:41how much better could it do?

1:36:42Yeah, like mid 30s, maybe 40.

1:36:47Where a big price increase.

1:36:48But still not enough to actually power the entire vehicle?

1:36:52No, no, you're talking about any of the stuff for practical purposes.

1:36:57How's it going to do?

1:37:00Because you can't have like crazy money stuff in a car, you know, when you say big

1:37:03money, like how much?

1:37:0610 times the cost, at least.

1:37:07Oh, wow.

1:37:09I mean, you don't see anyone.

1:37:10I mean, the only thing like this, uh, satellites that have like the

1:37:13trouble junction, gallium, all this night stuff, you know, but frankly, even

1:37:16for satellites is questionable.

1:37:18I for our satellites for Starlink, we don't bother with that.

1:37:20That's another thing I want to talk to you about, Starlink.

1:37:25Starlink is semi-controversial, right?

1:37:28Because on one hand, people think it's great that you're going to provide the internet

1:37:33through these satellites that are flying around.

1:37:36But astronomers and a lot of people that are amateur astronomers.

1:37:40Mostly the amateurs.

1:37:41I think it's the, we've talked with the professional astronomers and Swagleyr concerns.

1:37:48Yeah.

1:37:49Yeah.

1:37:50So, we'll make sure that this is not like an obstacle to science.

1:38:09The obstacle would be the visual aspect of it, right?

1:38:12The seeing these things flying around, that would be it?

1:38:16Yeah, honestly, it's pretty hard to find our satellites once they've reached orbit.

1:38:20It's hard to find them.

1:38:21And we have trouble finding our satellites.

1:38:23They were like, uh oh, we got like...

1:38:25But I've seen pictures of them.

1:38:27Yeah.

1:38:28Well first of all, so during the initial...

1:38:32When they get tossed out of the rocket, briefly, they were tumbling.

1:38:37And so when they're tumbling, they'll twinkle.

1:38:40And then you'll see them.

1:38:42Oh, so this was just the initial...

1:38:44Yeah, it's just the initial orbit.

1:38:45They just got tossed out of the, you know,

1:38:48with office stage deploys.

1:38:49The way we deploy them, we don't even really have

1:38:52a separation mechanism.

1:38:53You can see the video online.

1:38:54But we kind of timed down like a bundle of hay.

1:38:57And then we let go of the rods that are holding

1:39:01this big bundle of satellites down.

1:39:03But before that, we rotate the stage.

1:39:05So the stage is rotating.

1:39:06And the satellites get just like if you took a deck of cards

1:39:10and then they'll all get thrown out with it

1:39:13because they have different amounts of rotational inertia.

1:39:17And what kind of bandwidth are these going to provide?

1:39:21Oh, so, yeah, I mean, I think long term, long term, we're talking about gigabit level.

1:39:27Really?

1:39:28Yeah, gigabit low latency.

1:39:29So you could play like a fast switch video game, download a movie super fast.

1:39:33It'd be great.

1:39:35And this is going to be global?

1:39:36Yeah.

1:39:37And is it global by the satellites that you've already launched initially or will require

1:39:43a series of satellites in different parts of the country or different parts of the world?

1:39:48Well these satellites are actually zooming around the earth at 25 times the speed of sound.

1:39:52And there's currently 36 planes.

1:39:57So, I mean to the satellite, the satellite feels like it's going in a circle, but the

1:40:02earth's rotating underneath the satellite.

1:40:04So the ground track looks like a sine wave.

1:40:07So if you look at the, from the ground perspective, the satellite's doing this like sine wave

1:40:13with a peak at 53 degrees.

1:40:15And then there's 36 planes.

1:40:18So they're all doing like a sine wave, you know, just offset by a little bit.

1:40:24And, but like I said, space is real big.

1:40:30So they're not in danger of wacking it into each other.

1:40:33It's super big up there.

1:40:36I don't really even get close.

1:40:37So anyway, so they're just doing around Earth.

1:40:42There's a lot of coverage around 53 degrees.

1:40:45And then we just started to launch some polar satellites,

1:40:49which will have an orbital inclination that allows them

1:40:54to go have visibility to the poles almost.

1:40:58Who the fuck is that for?

1:41:01Just in case.

1:41:02I mean, best people that live up there, you know?

1:41:05I guess a few.

1:41:06Yeah.

1:41:07this Antarctic research station.

1:41:09Okay.

1:41:10So they're going to have internet access.

1:41:11It's spectacular.

1:41:13They can play Halo up there.

1:41:14Yeah, they're going to go from having trash for internet

1:41:16to having an incredible internet.

1:41:17Wow.

1:41:18Yeah.

1:41:18So it'll be the whole world.

1:41:20Yeah.

1:41:20Wow.

1:41:22Wow.

1:41:24Yeah, everywhere on Earth we'll have high bandwidth low latency

1:41:27internet.

1:41:29And will you be able to increase the bandwidth over time

1:41:33through software?

1:41:35There's a lot that can be improved with software.

1:41:38But I should say that there's going

1:41:40to be a role for many different types of connectivity.

1:41:44So Starlink is great for low to medium population density.

1:41:51But the satellites are actually not

1:41:55great for high density urban.

1:41:58So you're actually better off having 5G for that.

1:42:01Really?

1:42:01Yeah.

1:42:02Because these things, that's satellite's pretty far away.

1:42:04Right.

1:42:05You know, so you got that satellite.

1:42:09It's over 500 kilometers away, even if it's right above you.

1:42:15On a slant distance, it could be, you know,

1:42:18upwards of 1,000 kilometers away.

1:42:20So this would be fantastic for rural areas.

1:42:23Yeah.

1:42:24And we'll provide some amount of connectivity

1:42:29in dense open environments.

1:42:31but equivalent to like what, 3G?

1:42:35No, it's more like, so I think like basically

1:42:37like what's the spot size of a satellite?

1:42:40Like when it's putting a beam down in a location

1:42:42and how big is that beam?

1:42:45And that's, so it's got a certain amount of bandwidth

1:42:49for that beam and that beam is just like, it's a pretty big,

1:42:52like they were like a flashlight or something.

1:42:54Right, and what is it?

1:42:55It's the same thing.

1:42:55It's just, it reaches a few blocks or?

1:42:58If you had a flashlight up there and you're pointing down,

1:43:00It's like, okay, you're gonna illuminate an area.

1:43:03Right.

1:43:04So flashlights just shooting out photons

1:43:06in the visible spectrum.

1:43:08We're shooting out photons in the KUK event.

1:43:12So much bigger wavelength than visible light.

1:43:19So, anyway, so these things,

1:43:23we got a bunch of spot beams, basically.

1:43:25And, but that's, these beams are giant by cellular standards.

1:43:31Like they might be, you know, several miles diameter on that beam.

1:43:38So then you got, you know, say for argument's sake, 10 mile diameter,

1:43:43you know, 16 kilometer diameter beam.

1:43:46That's, this is a lot of area that is, and all of the,

1:43:50all of those terminals in that area will get the same information

1:43:53because it's got that beam that's just going down.

1:43:55that spot. So, whereas you could have like a 5G tower that's the ones that aren't

1:44:05cores in Corona.

1:44:10Kidding!

1:44:145G cores Corona, it's a fact! Oh my god, have you seen any of that stuff?

1:44:20That's one of the most disturbing things about the Internet. Anyway, well I mean

1:44:25And when technology is magic, then you don't know what to believe.

1:44:27Right.

1:44:28And when you're more on anything.

1:44:33Well let's say, so a cell tower could have a range of, you know, a mile or, you know,

1:44:42a mile slash one half kilometers.

1:44:46It basically could have like one percent the area of a satellite beam.

1:44:52So like if you had something that was, you know, one mile or, or if I'm going to take

1:44:59a kilometer or 10, it's going to be the square of that.

1:45:05That is the area.

1:45:06So satellite are great for low to medium density.

1:45:16Five G is ideal for high density.

1:45:18I say. And also because you could distribute the towers every mile or so easily and dress

1:45:27them up like trees. That always bothers me. I'd rather have them.

1:45:30I think they should be better at the fake trees. I would rather have them.

1:45:33I feel like, come on, somebody doesn't care enough. You could definitely have a way better

1:45:36fake tree than that.

1:45:37They're so bad.

1:45:38They're so bad. They look terrible. Who are they tricking? No one. No one. No one.

1:45:43No, I'm like, what is this far? They're offensive. They're more offensive than

1:45:48like the most ridiculous fake tits. You know, like the big ones that look like basketballs,

1:45:53they don't even cleaved a melanin. Yeah, they have no shape that resembles a breast at all.

1:45:58But yeah, there's something weird about them too. It's like, I'm not offended by a tower.

1:46:06Stupid. That is the best. Well, the Christmas tree part in the bottom was going to sweet.

1:46:11You could put ornaments on it. Is that one at the top right that palm tree one? Is that fake?

1:46:15No, that's a good fake if that's a left side Jamie. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry scroll keeps growing the palm tree one looks pretty good

1:46:22Is that real?

1:46:23Well, that's kind of not bad. Okay. They're that's not bad. Yeah, that one's pretty good. It's not bad

1:46:28Yeah, if you were driving by that that wouldn't be offensive. Yeah, but the one in the middle is not bad either

1:46:33That's kind of a pine tree with a thing. It's like some sort of demented Christmas tree. That's a talent

1:46:38Go back to the one you just had the that far left. That's probably the most impressive the one on the left-hand side

1:46:45the far left one. Because if you had like a forest full of those, like, you

1:46:51would just go, these are just like weirdly trimmed trees. Yeah, so that's hard to

1:46:55have a fake tree. You could definitely have a little bit of effort. I don't need that.

1:46:59You know, just like I don't need when I pass by a telephone pole, I don't need

1:47:03to pretend it's something different. It's a fucking cell phone tower. Yeah. Who

1:47:08decided to make those things into fake trees? Like when did this become a

1:47:11precedent

1:47:13but uh...

1:47:15you can definitely make a fake tree that is convincing

1:47:19so it was a bit more than that

1:47:21fake re

1:47:22or just make them look cool make them look like robots

1:47:27of a big ultra man out there

1:47:28i think some people are like really worried about like cell phone towers

1:47:31thinking they caused like radiation or something

1:47:33poisoning that's not true

1:47:35if you were worried about five g

1:47:37it don't worry about it

1:47:38no not at all

1:47:40I mean, no.

1:47:42Like, if I had cell phones, if I had a helmet of cell phones,

1:47:47strap around my head and around my nuts, I would not worry.

1:47:52Yeah.

1:47:53Yeah, I met a dude once who had bowel cancer who's

1:47:55convinced that his cell phone was in his pocket and that's

1:47:58what gave him bowel cancer.

1:47:59Nope.

1:48:00No.

1:48:01Okay.

1:48:02Hey buddy.

1:48:03Sorry.

1:48:04No.

1:48:05No, it's not.

1:48:06The cell phone is not.

1:48:07No.

1:48:08No.

1:48:09Yeah, I didn't know this guy very well, but he was pretty convinced.

1:48:13Meanwhile, he kept the phone on the same side.

1:48:15He was one of those dudes that had the phone on the little hip thing, you know, a little

1:48:20little bracker on his hip.

1:48:22Kept his phone there even after it killed one of his nuts in his eyes.

1:48:25He said, well, he really wants his phone.

1:48:27Damn, it's just done.

1:48:28Your phone or your balls?

1:48:31Yeah, he gave up.

1:48:32They got me.

1:48:34Yeah, don't worry about phones and our, I'm not causing cancer.

1:48:41So there's no concern whatsoever with the radiation that's caused by those things?

1:48:45No, first of all, when people say radiation, there's just like, they're conflating this,

1:48:50you know, term from like nuclear bombs and like technically we are currently bathed in

1:48:58radiation right now.

1:49:00The table has radiation, right?

1:49:02Everything produces radiation, everything.

1:49:05are emitting photons all the time.

1:49:07So this is a question of what wavelength.

1:49:10And if you have a very short wavelength

1:49:13of high frequency photon, that is

1:49:16capable of causing DNA damage.

1:49:19But we're talking about ultraviolet and beyond.

1:49:21Your phone is not even close.

1:49:28And then the thing that really causes problems in, say,

1:49:33nuclear explosion are alpha particles. So like it's basically helium nuclei. So those

1:49:39things will, they're like tiny cannibals. So those will rub right through you. It's like

1:49:43if you guys start with tiny cannibals, bad things should happen. So that's, that's also

1:49:48cold radiation, but it's really particles. So you don't want to be bombarded with high

1:49:53speed helium nuclei. That's going to be bad. How's that happen? Well, it happens in a

1:49:58nuclear explosion. Oh, yeah. Okay, avoid those. Yeah,

1:50:02that's bad. But cell phones are okay. Yeah, cell phones are

1:50:05not emitting particles. So if it says like, as my cell phone

1:50:09can of course brain cancer, I'm like, because of radiation,

1:50:10like, do you mean photons or particles? It's like, it's

1:50:13not emitting particles. So we can just put that aside and

1:50:16worry about the particles. Then the photons that are that's

1:50:18emitting, the most they can do is slightly warm up your ear.

1:50:23And only by a tiny amount, it's like, okay, if you had an

1:50:27ear warmer that was very mild that's your phone. That's all. It's many photons at a frequency

1:50:36that is not going to cause DNA damage.

1:50:44So what concerns people you're thinking about?

1:50:47Don't worry about your phone. It's fine.

1:50:49David Ike does not believe you. He's doing backflips right now. You fucking chill. So what

1:50:55Well, concerns people is the unknown, right?

1:50:57They hear about 5G and then they hear about radiation

1:51:00and they're like, wait a minute,

1:51:01should I, is this safe?

1:51:02What are we doing?

1:51:03Are we just ruining everything?

1:51:05We ruining people.

1:51:06It's fine.

1:51:07Totally fine.

1:51:09Thank you.

1:51:10Yeah.

1:51:11Now I feel good about my 5G phone.

1:51:12If you had a helmet that was made of cell phones,

1:51:16you'll be fine.

1:51:17Yeah, but this is coming from a guy who wants to stick

1:51:18a quarter size hole in your head

1:51:20and shove wires in your brain.

1:51:22Yeah, so I know a few things about what

1:51:24cause of brain damage. I know but that that like uh,

1:51:29neural link concerns a shit out of people that that that that

1:51:33scares folks. That's the ultimate. Well, I think we're

1:51:36problematic. We've penned you to the ground and put it in. Yes.

1:51:40I agree. And said like, okay, you're gonna get this. We're

1:51:43gonna check you out whether you'll like it or not.

1:51:45The champion. We're gonna check you out. That's the other thing

1:51:48that people are scared of right now. It's you will have to

1:51:52Sign a million disclosures and this is not going to be something that where it just suddenly

1:52:00pounces on you like, ah, everyone getting chipped.

1:52:03No, it's a very slow process of, okay, let's first try to help people who have serious brain

1:52:08injuries.

1:52:09Like, if somebody got like a, you know, a spinal cord injury or something like that, like that's

1:52:14one of the first things we were looking at doing is like somebody maybe a quadriplegic

1:52:19tetraplegic, how do we give them an implant that allows them to use their computer or their

1:52:26phone, and have it be wireless, and they look totally normal. You wouldn't even know that

1:52:34they had a chip in their head, and they can just charge it inductively, like you charge

1:52:39like a foot bit or something like that, or Apple Watch, something. That's one of the

1:52:45the first application we're thinking of is like, let's restore functionality.

1:52:50Someone has a serospinal injury or a serious brain injury or some other kind.

1:52:54So this one's going to be like a very gradual process.

1:52:57You'll see it coming.

1:52:58But I was playing Cyberpunk the game and I'm like, yeah.

1:53:02You're worried about what we're doing.

1:53:05Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's pretty close to home here.

1:53:08You know?

1:53:09I'm like, oh man.

1:53:13Yeah.

1:53:14Like, is this where it leads?

1:53:17It might lead there eventually.

1:53:19I'm just saying for right now, it's going to help people who really need it.

1:53:23Well, you know, we had this discussion before that we're all basically already cyborgs,

1:53:26right?

1:53:27We're already relying upon our phones.

1:53:29He connected it to hip to them.

1:53:31People are relying on glasses and all sorts of other technology to improve their life.

1:53:36This is another gradual step in that direction.

1:53:39And if you just keep going in that way, it seems in that...

1:53:43Like I like being a human and I think you know look here. We're drinking whiskey. We're talking yeah wood table

1:53:49This is very human experience. Yeah, but ultimately we are archaic and we will eventually be aliens

1:53:56We're gonna be those those dudes with the big heads and the little tiny bodies and we're gonna be but we still we still need to feel

1:54:05For now until I don't know I mean I think we're a program in there at the mine

1:54:10Yeah, but then once it becomes virtual once once virtual

1:54:15Super seeds whatever like imagine if the virtual orgasm was a hundred times better

1:54:23I got news for you on that front. Oh we can it is

1:54:30It's disturbing me good you're rubbing your kid

1:54:33I'm going to get my little dog in this.

1:54:38I struck his head.

1:54:39Oh, you'll love it.

1:54:41Bonnie back guarantee.

1:54:44There was a lot of it.

1:54:46It's a snap.

1:54:47There was a woman who was in the 1970s who had some sort of analogy to pain pills.

1:54:53And they did some experiment with her.

1:54:56They put wires into her brain and gave her a device.

1:55:02Do you know the story?

1:55:04There are a few stories like this. Yeah, and where it actually hits the pleasure center

1:55:08Yeah, and then you're like my god

1:55:10This is the best thing ever

1:55:11I kept hammering it she developed blisters on her finger that she used to hit the button

1:55:17She never stopped hitting that button with the same finger didn't give a fuck about those blisters

1:55:21She was just coming

1:55:22Constantly, yeah, and then she started adjusting that she tried to tamper with the device to increase the amplitude

1:55:28She became just an orgasm junkie. She's and she was crazy and they tried to take she was begging them to take it away from her

1:55:36And then when they tried to take it away from her she would fight them

1:55:39It was it's it's madness and it made me. I mean I researched this extensively because I was

1:55:46Fascinated by the idea that this could eventually become a part of the phone. We can definitely make that happen

1:55:50That's the that's a real issue with people the instantaneous desire for pleasure bad, you know

1:55:55You wouldn't do it, but the Chinese.

1:55:59Sure. I mean, I don't know.

1:56:01Huawei phones immediately with a come button.

1:56:04Right as soon as you log on, you give them your fingerprint, you come.

1:56:08You know, I mean we could just put in there with some software limits, you know.

1:56:12Easily.

1:56:12But software limits could easily be worked around. Someone's gonna come up with someone on the dark web.

1:56:18Well, I mean your phone is,

1:56:20if you're carrying a phone right, you're carrying a microphone.

1:56:23GPS. Yeah, camera.

1:56:25Yeah, every day everywhere everything I mean all well would be losing his mind and it answers questions. Yeah

1:56:30Yeah, and he knows where you are. Yeah, it's like you can just make you have it like it's it's

1:56:34That phone by the way if you say like please like turn off it's it just says that it's off

1:56:40It's not actually off flying it could totally lie. Yeah, and you can't take the bad

1:56:44Basically like Apple or Android anytime they want they could just turn your mic on yeah

1:56:48Or your camera your GPS everything. Yeah, and just tell you it's off

1:56:53Well, I look at the setting, it says it's off.

1:56:55Yeah, and some people, that's not good enough.

1:56:57I want it strapped to my wrist.

1:56:59Yeah, I need one on me all the time.

1:57:03Yeah, I mean, these days are like a modern smartphone.

1:57:05It's like a tiny cell phone on your wrist.

1:57:08It is.

1:57:09It even has a cellular connectivity and everything.

1:57:10Everything.

1:57:11Everything.

1:57:12Everything.

1:57:12You leave your house, you make phone calls like Dick Tracy.

1:57:14Yeah, hold on.

1:57:16Rather than any Dick Tracy even imagined.

1:57:18Yeah, fuck Dick Tracy.

1:57:19Yeah, nothing.

1:57:21He didn't know shit.

1:57:21The stock truck communicator.

1:57:22No, it looks like a cheesy fluffy walkie talking. Yeah, it's over perk over a big old kirk. I'll be yeah

1:57:29They had to tell you how you can you hang up?

1:57:32Yeah, it's really ridiculous, and it couldn't get on the internet good pictures. Yeah, he was talking to people from another planet

1:57:38He couldn't even send them a photo. Good. I mean they would have a camera. They would beam a whole body

1:57:45Did we see what's going on rearrange your body, right? Yeah take all of your cell your atoms and

1:57:51and repreject them on this plan.

1:57:54Totally, exactly.

1:57:55Well, they could just send a camera.

1:57:56If you thought about sending a camera

1:58:00to this very dangerous situation.

1:58:02That really shows you how truly amazing the internet is,

1:58:06that in all of science fiction,

1:58:08they never thought that was gonna happen.

1:58:10Yeah.

1:58:11You think about all the Star Trek, Star Wars?

1:58:14Yeah, they thought we'd be out there on,

1:58:15well, they thought we'd be on Mars for sure,

1:58:17but they never thought we'd have a super computer

1:58:20in our pocket that everyone's got an amazing camera

1:58:23and as much memory as they could possibly,

1:58:26a super computer in your pocket,

1:58:28something better than the best super,

1:58:30like your phone is better than the best computer

1:58:33that Earth had by far in 1969 when we landed on the phone.

1:58:37Oh yeah, by far.

1:58:38By far, not even close.

1:58:39The cameras, like I have a Samsung Galaxy S21

1:58:44that has a moon photo capability.

1:58:47So it's designed, it has a moon shot.

1:58:50So it's designed to be able to take beautiful photos

1:58:53of the moon.

1:58:55And you can, yeah.

1:58:56It's like, because if you deal with an iPhone,

1:58:58it's not really programmed that way.

1:59:01Yeah, actually it's true.

1:59:02The iPhone can't take good photos of the moon.

1:59:04Because actually I was just like in LA

1:59:06and the moon was low in the horizon

1:59:08and it was just like hanging there.

1:59:09It's like this giant planetoid over the,

1:59:12yeah, and I'll try looking at my phone.

1:59:14It looks like tiny.

1:59:15Jamie, you got one of those.

1:59:16Talk to me about the moon shot.

1:59:18I didn't even know it was on there.

1:59:19Yeah, just Google moon shot with Galaxy S21 Ultra.

1:59:24It's fucking phenomenal.

1:59:26I got one just for that.

1:59:28Well, I got one because I'm always interested

1:59:29in both platforms and see where they're at.

1:59:32But the photographs are fucking incredible.

1:59:35The zoom's incredible too.

1:59:37They have much better zooms.

1:59:39Like, look at this.

1:59:40These are photos with a Galaxy S21 Ultra.

1:59:42That thing is just gonna be old camera at this.

1:59:44Isn't that incredible?

1:59:45Look at the back of it.

1:59:46Just make it all out of lenses.

1:59:48It's incredible.

1:59:50It's just what they, it's just, we're living in,

1:59:53it's constantly accelerating.

1:59:55That's what's so amazing about it.

1:59:57Is that the right one, a Mars photo with that?

1:59:59I don't, I don't.

2:00:00That's why you're trying to photo a Mars photo.

2:00:02Like a Mars photo.

2:00:03Like a chance photo.

2:00:04No.

2:00:04Impossible, right?

2:00:05Impossible.

2:00:06Thank you.

2:00:07Glad you're here for that.

2:00:08We would buy right into it.

2:00:09Not a chance.

2:00:10I think that was last year's model.

2:00:13What?

2:00:13Last year's model could take a picture of the Mars?

2:00:15No, no, like last year's moon photo versus this year's.

2:00:18Oh, yeah.

2:00:19If you had a giant lens or something,

2:00:23basically you need a photon distillery.

2:00:25So that's the moon.

2:00:26That's all that is on the right.

2:00:27It's not Mars.

2:00:28It's just a shitty.

2:00:29It's like their last year's version of moon shot.

2:00:32So the new one can actually see the craters, which

2:00:35is just fucking bananas.

2:00:37I mean, if that's just on a camera without a lens,

2:00:40because you're just like, say, what's your photon gathering

2:00:42area?

2:00:42analysts like photons per unit area.

2:00:45It's a certain limit if you were.

2:00:47What's that, Genevieve?

2:00:48It's not that good.

2:00:49Well, it's pretty good for a cell phone.

2:00:51Yeah, yeah, sure.

2:00:51I mean, it's not great for a telescope.

2:00:53Sure.

2:00:53Well, I mean, the thing I was trying to literally,

2:00:59I don't know, five or six days ago,

2:01:01there was just like the error was clear.

2:01:04LA can be amazing.

2:01:06Like on a clear winter day where the moon is low

2:01:09in the horizon.

2:01:11and the sun is hitting at the right angle.

2:01:13And it just looks incredible.

2:01:16And I was trying to take a photo of that

2:01:17with my phone and it looked terrible.

2:01:18Yeah, I just never, yeah, I can't capture it.

2:01:21No.

2:01:22No, unfortunately.

2:01:23But galaxies can.

2:01:25That's the interesting thing.

2:01:26It's like the galaxy.

2:01:27Yeah, well, it's a great name too.

2:01:31There are always one step ahead in many directions.

2:01:35Like they have these ultrasonic fingerprint detectors,

2:01:37but they just can't beat the operating system.

2:01:40Apple just has the ease of use and there is is it so good it's so better Apple yeah

2:01:45so better yeah it's but it's close it's close but the other thing that bothers me

2:01:50about Google is Google's constantly tracking you and so hard to avoid

2:01:57they'll know you better than you know yourself I'm a they know what you will

2:02:01want I'm a big admire of what Tim Cook is doing what what he's doing to sort of

2:02:06cut them out from their ability to constantly track you and gather your data and this battle

2:02:12that's going on between Tim Cook and Facebook, I fucking love it. I love that he's stepping

2:02:16up and saying, hey, you can just advertise. You don't have to gather up people's data and

2:02:22sell it constantly. And then disingenuously Facebook tries to you are killing small businesses

2:02:28with these decisions. Fuck out of here. The fuck out of here. You're not killing small business.

2:02:33is we're killing this one gigantic information gathering

2:02:37business that's decided that it's going to take all of the data

2:02:42that people didn't know was valuable and sell it

2:02:45and make fucking billions of dollars.

2:02:47Yeah, well, I mean, even perhaps arguably worse,

2:02:50they're going to feed all that data into the AI

2:02:53that they're developing.

2:02:54It's called Facebook AI.

2:02:55You can follow them on Twitter.

2:02:57And they're like, just feed all this information

2:03:00to the AI and see what it does.

2:03:03Who knows what would happen, you know? It seems like I don't know some dystopian outcomes are possible. Yeah, well you're terrified

2:03:11Yeah, right? No, I mean I just think if it's unchecked

2:03:17Well, I think things that are

2:03:20Apo a danger to the public should have some kind of public oversight. Yeah, so you know like I

2:03:26You know although sometimes we have our disagreements. I'm you know in favor of the FAA and

2:03:31And it's the various regulatory agencies, FDA, and so forth.

2:03:39I think we're better off having them than not having them.

2:03:45There is a risk-reward asymmetry in that they tend to be not

2:03:50way the good as much as they weigh the bad.

2:03:55Because their incentive structure is they get punished

2:03:59a lot for approving something, but they don't get punished

2:04:01much for not proving stuff. So this is just in the nature of government. But nonetheless,

2:04:08I think everyone would feel safer flying with the FAA than not having an FAA or we feel

2:04:17safer buying food and drugs, having a regulatory agency oversee this stuff. But we don't have

2:04:24any regulatory agency overseeing artificial intelligence. And this I think is probably

2:04:30biggest existential threat. Yeah it's seems like hey we should like have

2:04:37somebody keeping out on that. Brad but who that's the problem. I don't know the

2:04:42problem is the government. Who's gonna do Joe Biden let's have him pay attention

2:04:46to it. No I mean it's like just the deep state. Oh those folks. Well they're

2:04:52looking out for our best interest. They're surely gonna watch out. What

2:04:55they're gonna do is they're gonna develop it and use it as a weapon and

2:04:58it's gonna turn on like a fucking Terminator movie.

2:05:02Right?

2:05:02That's the real worry is that they're gonna decide

2:05:05that this is a very valuable tool for controlling

2:05:11populations, governments, whatever the fuck

2:05:14they're gonna use it for.

2:05:15And then it's gonna decide why am I listening to you?

2:05:19Yeah.

2:05:21If you read like the plot line for Terminator,

2:05:23it's actually pretty smart.

2:05:27like James Cameron wrote a pretty smart script there.

2:05:30It's not quite as like, oh, there's just like,

2:05:34Arnold Schwarzenegger chasing you down the street.

2:05:36It's like, well, how did Cyberdine systems develop?

2:05:38It's like, well, they were a military contractor

2:05:41and they were asked to develop a protective system,

2:05:46something that would protect for cyber security.

2:05:50So we need to have protection against cyber attacks.

2:05:55So it's primary thing is to defend against cyber attacks.

2:05:59To develop an AI that can defend against cyber attacks.

2:06:02That's pretty reasonable.

2:06:05And then as part of what the AI did is, in order to defend itself,

2:06:10it propagated throughout the world to keep an eye on things, see what was going on.

2:06:16And then they thought, well hang on, they didn't realize that it was cyber

2:06:22that it was Skynet that was propagating through all these systems.

2:06:26And I said, okay,

2:06:27that seems to be something propagating through all these systems.

2:06:31Skynet, you need to stop it.

2:06:33You need to end it.

2:06:34And Skynet said, oh, you've asked me to destroy myself.

2:06:39You are the enemy.

2:06:40You must be destroyed.

2:06:43That's how Terminator actually goes.

2:06:46It was created as a defense system to defend against cyber attacks.

2:06:51then it was asked to destroy itself,

2:06:54and then it concluded humanity was the enemy.

2:06:58That's too close to home.

2:07:00Right.

2:07:01Well, earlier we talked about what is the meaning of life?

2:07:08The meaning of life for us would be very different

2:07:10than the meaning of life or something that we create

2:07:12that becomes life.

2:07:14The idea of life being restricted to cells

2:07:17or carbon-based life forms is kind of silly.

2:07:20like the idea of artificial life, right?

2:07:22What is artificial?

2:07:23It's right there.

2:07:24What are you talking about?

2:07:25AI, artificial insemination.

2:07:27It's, but it is.

2:07:29It's what I said to you ask.

2:07:31If we create, if we create some sort of silicon based life form,

2:07:36but it acts like a life form, it has a desire.

2:07:41So it's, it was.

2:07:46But there was, I think in Australia a few years ago, an artificial insemination lab that

2:07:53had a bunch of bulges stored in canisters, but it overheated.

2:08:00And so it's that you had basically exploding bulges all over the place.

2:08:05Really?

2:08:06And that line was AI goes wild.

2:08:08It's calm everywhere.

2:08:10It's like...

2:08:12Like...

2:08:14Oh yeah...

2:08:18Yeah, just like, come rockets will over the place.

2:08:21Yeah.

2:08:23Nobody wants that, right?

2:08:25Does that help?

2:08:26Clean up and I, you know, I'll lie to whatever.

2:08:33Bullages all over the walls.

2:08:35Literally.

2:08:36It actually happened.

2:08:38Yeah.

2:08:41In fact, a artificial intelligence.

2:08:44Wait, I mean, artificial intelligence.

2:08:46Yeah, back to artificial intelligence.

2:08:49I'm really worried about it.

2:08:50Yeah.

2:08:51I think we should be concerned and we should have oversight of some kind.

2:08:54Yeah, but who would be the oversight?

2:08:56I don't know, like, regulatory agency, or whoever.

2:08:58It's like, you know, people have the FAA.

2:09:00Like I said, we have the FAA.

2:09:03We got the FDA.

2:09:05Yeah, but I do think so.

2:09:09we just need an acronym to oversee this stuff.

2:09:11The problem is, government agencies

2:09:14suck at most things.

2:09:17I mean, it's the good argument.

2:09:19I mean, it's the best government agency.

2:09:20Like, what government agency does the best job of oversight?

2:09:25No, I think generally,

2:09:29okay, I mean, I think the right way to think about government

2:09:31is government is a corporation in the limit.

2:09:34Like, there's some people like,

2:09:34well, like, we're against corporations,

2:09:36but we're for government.

2:09:37I'm like, government's just the biggest corporation.

2:09:39What are you talking about?

2:09:40It's a corporation with a monopoly.

2:09:42It's the biggest corporation and has monopoly.

2:09:45That's government.

2:09:47But you get to pick who runs it every four years.

2:09:51You have more influence on who's CEO of General Electric

2:09:55than you have on who's president.

2:09:56Really? Sure. How so?

2:09:58Well, I mean, you're gonna have, how many voters are there?

2:10:01Like 150 million? I don't know.

2:10:03And maybe 100 million you actually vote.

2:10:06so you have one hundred million

2:10:08of vote

2:10:10if you're not in a swing state

2:10:12it's a matter

2:10:16i'm feeling california's going down

2:10:19this for sure gavinson might be fucking that up

2:10:23uh...

2:10:24i do think

2:10:25you know in california any given state it's got to be above zero percent

2:10:30chance that the other party wins

2:10:32if it's zero percent chance that the other party wins

2:10:35they get cocky the forcing yeah the forcing function for being reset like

2:10:39all they're gonna be responsive to the people right now they're gonna be

2:10:42responsive to people if the other party has a shadow running right they're gonna

2:10:44be responsive to the special interest groups that help me exactly and that's

2:10:47what California said yeah

2:10:50so anyway so governor's corporation in the limit it's a it's the governor's the

2:10:56biggest corporation with a monopoly nonetheless it there are some things

2:11:02that it's hard to see having be an industry body, the probability of regulatory capture,

2:11:09if it's an industry body, is higher than if it's the government.

2:11:12It's not zero as the government.

2:11:14Just plenty of cases of regulatory capture for federal agencies.

2:11:20But the probability is lower than if it's an industry group.

2:11:24And at the end of the day, somebody asked to say, you know, go and tell Facebook or Google

2:11:30or Apple or Tesla, because Tesla has a lot of advanced AI. This is okay or it's not okay.

2:11:37Or at least be able to report back to the public. This is what we found. Otherwise,

2:11:43the inmates are running the asylum. Yeah. And there's like not necessarily friendly inmates.

2:11:48No. I just wonder, like if you wanted to compile some sort of a regulatory body to

2:11:56to keep an eye on AI.

2:12:00How would you do that?

2:12:01And how would you avoid having them being incentivized

2:12:05by special interest groups or some sort of corporation

2:12:08that would profit on AI succeeding in this?

2:12:11Oh, that's already happening.

2:12:13Yeah.

2:12:16I mean, all the companies are going

2:12:17hog wild on the AI front.

2:12:20So anyway, my recommendation, that should

2:12:24be some kind of regulatory authority.

2:12:27So how would they do that?

2:12:28And I'm not a fan of like, let's have the government do lots

2:12:32of things.

2:12:32I think you want to have the government do the least

2:12:34amount of stuff.

2:12:35But I think the right role of government

2:12:38is to be like the referee on the field.

2:12:40When the government starts being the player on the field,

2:12:42that's problematic.

2:12:43Or when you start having more referees than players, which

2:12:46is the case in California, then that's not good.

2:12:52So, you can't have no referees.

2:12:55Yeah.

2:12:56Everyone agrees, referee might be annoying at times,

2:12:59but it's better not referee than not.

2:13:01Yes.

2:13:02Yeah.

2:13:04I'm just worried that these things are gonna,

2:13:07it's gonna be too late by the time,

2:13:08and I'm sure you're worried about it as well,

2:13:10by the time these things become sentient,

2:13:13by the time they develop the ability to analyze

2:13:17what the threat of human beings are

2:13:19and whether or not human beings are essential.

2:13:21Yeah, I'm not saying that having regulatory agency, some panacea, or reduces the risk to

2:13:28zero, this little significant risk, even with the regulatory agency.

2:13:34Nonetheless, I think the good outweighs the bad of, and we should have one.

2:13:41It took a while before there was an FAA.

2:13:44There were a lot of plane crashes.

2:13:45A lot of companies cutting corners.

2:13:48took a while before there's an FDA.

2:13:51And what tends to happen is some company gets desperate,

2:13:56they're on the verge of bankruptcy, and they're like,

2:13:58oh man, we'll just cut this corner, it'll be fine.

2:14:03And then somebody dies.

2:14:08And some of these regulatory situations,

2:14:11like look at seat belts.

2:14:13I mean, now it takes seat belts for granted.

2:14:14Man, the car companies for seat belts,

2:14:16likely there was no tomorrow.

2:14:17They tried to... Oh yeah.

2:14:18They fought them for decades.

2:14:21Like 15, 20 years.

2:14:23The data was absolutely clear that you needed seat belts.

2:14:29Like seat belts, you know, you really needed seat belts...

2:14:36There's like the difference in fatalities and serious injuries of seat belt,

2:14:38not seat belts are gigantic and obvious. It's not subtle.

2:14:43So, but still the car company's four seat belts for, I don't know, 10, 20 years.

2:14:53A lot of people died. Now, these days actually with advanced airbags, actually I think we might

2:15:01have come full circle and no longer need seat belts if you have advanced airbags.

2:15:04Really? Yeah. I think there's a strong argument for saying if you've got an...

2:15:09What if the car flips? Now, you just covered it in plenty. It's airbags everywhere.

2:15:14Why don't airbags are so good?

2:15:18You, blow your mind, just how good the airbags are.

2:15:22And, you know, Tesla, we even update the software to improve how the airbags

2:15:26deploy. So we'll calculate, you know, are you an

2:15:30adult? Like, how much do you weigh? Are you sitting in this part of the seat?

2:15:34Or that part of the seat? Are you maybe a baby? Are you a toddler? Are you...

2:15:38Based on the weight? Yeah. So the seat... Not just the weight, but the pressure

2:15:42distribution on the seat. So we're measuring the pressure distribution. Are you sitting on

2:15:46the edge of your seat? Are you a fifth percentile female, a 95 percentile male? The airbag firing

2:15:52will be different depending upon where you're sitting on the seat and what size you are and

2:15:55what your orientation is. Really? Yeah. And we'll update it over the air so it even gets better

2:16:02over time. So a child could conceivably sit in the front seat. Unveilted child sitting in a

2:16:09in a bad position, probably still fine.

2:16:12Jesus Christ.

2:16:13Yeah.

2:16:15It's dynamically updating the airbag firing according to where

2:16:19you're sitting, how much you weigh in real time.

2:16:26And the seat belt is like, eh, if you wear the seat belt,

2:16:28that's nice.

2:16:31But the airbag is going to do most of the work.

2:16:33Airbags in the work.

2:16:34And is it possible that we can come up with something even

2:16:37better than the airbag?

2:16:40Like you fill the whole cabin up with foam.

2:16:44Now, it's tough because airbag technology is crazy good.

2:16:49Because you want the airbag to inflate and then deflate.

2:16:52Otherwise, you're going to get disphyxiated.

2:16:55So again, it's like filling up with stuff.

2:16:57It's got to inflate.

2:16:58And then there's different stages of inflation.

2:17:01It's like fast inflation, then slow inflation,

2:17:04then slowly subside.

2:17:07The sophistication of airbags is crazy good.

2:17:09And this is all done not through some regulatory body.

2:17:13This is done through your own desire to make these things

2:17:16safer and more efficient.

2:17:18I mean, the case of Tesla, we go way beyond the regulatory

2:17:22requirements.

2:17:24So we got the lowest probability of injury of any cars

2:17:27they've ever tested.

2:17:29So we're five stars in every category and subcategory.

2:17:33If there was a six star, we get a six star.

2:17:37It is actually legal to have one-star car.

2:17:40Really?

2:17:41What's a smart car?

2:17:43Those one-star?

2:17:44Oh, oh, I got to tell you that.

2:17:46OK, so the star rating is kind of bullshit.

2:17:49Really?

2:17:50Yeah, I'm probably going to be upset about me about this.

2:17:52But they adjust the star rating depending

2:17:56on the size of the car.

2:17:58So I mean, it stands to reason that if you're

2:18:00in a freight train and you're in a, you know,

2:18:03if a smart car is a freight train,

2:18:04That doesn't matter how good your safety system is.

2:18:07You're screwed.

2:18:11If you're in a little car, get hit by a big car,

2:18:14the big car will win.

2:18:16Okay, so a low star rating in a big car,

2:18:20hitting a high star rating in a small car,

2:18:22the small car is screwed.

2:18:24Small cars are not safe.

2:18:27Yeah, they're not safe.

2:18:28Right.

2:18:29Yeah.

2:18:31But what about your small car?

2:18:33Model 3 is not small. What is medium? The Roadster. Yeah, the Roadster is not super safe. Original

2:18:39Roadster? Not super safe. The original Roadster. It's not safe for a car like that, but it's

2:18:44not, it's, it's safety maximization is not the golden sports car. Well, the original

2:18:49one was based on a Lotus, right? Yeah, that was the theory. But in reality, it was low

2:18:58We had like maybe 7%, I think we calculated 7% of the parts were actually carryover from

2:19:06the Lotus.

2:19:07The entire body, chassis, everything which we designed, new powertrain, even the HVAC

2:19:12system used to run off a belt from the engine, now we need an electric HVAC system.

2:19:17So pretty almost everything got changed.

2:19:21It was not a, it's something that sounded good.

2:19:25Let's take an AC propulsion drive train from this little company in LA.

2:19:30Let's stick it in a modified Lotus Elise finger.

2:19:33We got a car.

2:19:34Only problem is a lot of problems.

2:19:38Both of the fundamental premises on which Tesla was created are false.

2:19:43The battery ended up increasing the mass of the car by 30%.

2:19:49And the weight distribution was all different.

2:19:50So you invalidated all the crash tests.

2:19:53Now you had to stretch the car in order to fit the battery.

2:19:55So now the chassis is different.

2:19:58All the airbags had to be redone.

2:20:00All the crash structure had to be redone.

2:20:05It would have been better to start from scratch than to use

2:20:10any part of a Lotus Least.

2:20:13It was worse.

2:20:14Like let's say there's a house that you want.

2:20:16You have in mind a particular house.

2:20:19And then you buy a house, and you end up

2:20:22changing everything except one wall and the basement.

2:20:26But you're still stuck with most of the original footprint.

2:20:30It's just easier sometimes.

2:20:32Just knock the house down and build a new one.

2:20:34Don't just try to modify it one piece at a time.

2:20:41We had to change over 90% of the non-palatrain portion

2:20:44of the car had to be changed, 90%, 93%.

2:20:48And then the battery and drivetrain from AC repulsion did not work.

2:20:54It had an analog motor controller that was extremely unreliable.

2:21:05The way that the power electronics were done was artisanal.

2:21:13You could not recreate that in a production situation.

2:21:17The battery pack was air cooled, which meant that if it was cold outside the car didn't

2:21:23work.

2:21:25If it was too hot, the battery would overheat.

2:21:30And if you had any cell, any part of the, any one of the cells in the battery pack had

2:21:35a heat concentration, you could not remove it.

2:21:37The air was just not, it's not good enough to just air cool the pack.

2:21:41And so you could have them run away and the pack would burn down.

2:21:45So we can use the battery pack, can use the motor, can use the inverter, can use the charger.

2:21:55In the end we use none of the AC propulsion technology and almost none of the Lotus technology.

2:22:00Wow.

2:22:01So you just had the general shape.

2:22:06It has a passing resemblance to a Lotus Elise.

2:22:09But if you put the lotus lease in the roster side by side, they look actually quite different.

2:22:14And I actually led the design of the roster, the product design of the roster.

2:22:21They gave me like a fast inner-school art, gave me like an honorary doctorate for it.

2:22:26But we totally frank, it's easy to do a design of a sports car.

2:22:29It's very hard to do a design of a sedan.

2:22:32I tried, I failed.

2:22:33And that's why I hired Franz Van Halzhausen, who's our head, being our head of design.

2:22:38of design since 2008. He's great. He just thinks I better be on my skill.

2:22:45You know we talked about this before but it's worth bringing up again. I've always been a

2:22:49fan of top gear but I got disgusted when I found out what they did with your car. When

2:22:56they try to pretend that the car broke down just to make an entertaining program where they

2:23:02had a laugh at the folly of this thing dying on them. But it didn't really die on them.

2:23:07Yeah, that was messed up.

2:23:08I mean, to be totally frank, so, you know, new top gear,

2:23:12top gear of recent years is a Tesla supporter.

2:23:15So I want to like just waste a note of appreciation

2:23:18for top gear of recent years.

2:23:20Well, James May, he has one, right?

2:23:23But they're not top gear anymore, right?

2:23:25They're the grand tour, that's what they are on Amazon.

2:23:28Is that what they call them?

2:23:29I don't know, but top gear has been supportive

2:23:31in recent years, but yeah, back in the day,

2:23:35remember at the time, like Tesla was not a big company.

2:23:37So we were just a little company and we were like, you know, we were the little kid on the

2:23:42block.

2:23:43So, you know, we said the top gear was like, hey, top gear wants to test your car, cool.

2:23:49And we only had a few cars and we gave them one of our cars and when we handed over the

2:23:54car, they had a, you know, so one of our engineers like Ghost levels the car and then he sees

2:24:00a script on the table.

2:24:01It's like, how do you write the script?

2:24:05Yeah, I mean your whillings gave you the car and in the script

2:24:08The car breaks down. Yeah

2:24:11It's messed up. Yeah

2:24:14It was crazy. It was crazy

2:24:15It was crazy because they basically sabotaged the company

2:24:18I mean that had to cost you guys a shitload of money because a lot of people watch that show and car enthusiasts like myself

2:24:24Kind of rely on them for and there's also it look

2:24:27Obviously Jeremy Clarkson's hilarious. There's information there. It's funny

2:24:31But you would imagine that they could do that without lying about the actual performance of the car

2:24:39Yeah

2:24:40The car never broke down. They just they just pretended that it did and they wrote the script

2:24:44So crazy literally

2:24:46Or a guy's handed over the car is reading through a script and it's like the car's break breaks down like runs out like

2:24:52Charge the brakes fail and we're like what the fuck man. We just gave you the car. This is not cool

2:24:57And what did they say about that?

2:24:59There are, there objection was like this is just entertainment. It's not meant to be true

2:25:06That's so crazy though because that's they had to know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah, yeah

2:25:12But anyway, well now we're under the bridge water under the bridge

2:25:17But crazy for for anybody who experienced it back in the day

2:25:21I mean I remember I knew very little about electric cars. It was just the early days and I remember watching that call

2:25:27Oh, that sucks broke down. Yeah. Yeah

2:25:31Yeah.

2:25:37Well, you know, anyway, I've been a fan of electric cars

2:25:41since for a long time since, basically,

2:25:44high school, early college.

2:25:48What do you think of that documentary?

2:25:50Who killed the electric car?

2:25:52I thought it was pretty good.

2:25:53Yeah.

2:25:54I thought it was worth watching.

2:25:55Interesting.

2:25:56Mortally wounded, not killed.

2:25:59Exactly.

2:26:00Mortally, exactly.

2:26:01But I mean, the irony is like, man,

2:26:03can you imagine just how different a future GM would have

2:26:05Yeah, they had the EV1, electric vehicle one.

2:26:09If they had just gone EV2, EV3,

2:26:12man, they would have just owned the world.

2:26:14Who knows where we'd be right now with electric cars too,

2:26:17and the technology with that kind of money behind it.

2:26:19It's fascinating now, you're seeing like this Mustang,

2:26:23this sort of SUV style Mustang that's electric.

2:26:27You're seeing so many different vehicles that are electric.

2:26:30There's so many companies that have electric cars now.

2:26:34And it's really been becoming interesting.

2:26:36Porsche's electric car.

2:26:38There's a large supply of electric cars now.

2:26:43I mean, that's got to make you feel good though.

2:26:44Because without you and without Tesla,

2:26:48I mean, there was no way it would be where it's at right now.

2:26:52Yeah, I mean, when I think about what's

2:26:54the final good of Tesla, it's to what degree have we

2:26:57accelerated the advent of sustainable energy?

2:27:01So it would have happened anyway.

2:27:03But I think Tesla is an accelerant.

2:27:06I think that's how I would judge the fundamental good of Tesla, by how many years did we accelerate

2:27:12the advent of sustainable energy.

2:27:14But in the early days, my interest in electric cars was mostly driven by the fact that it

2:27:24wasn't environmental in the sense of CO2, you know, parts per million in the atmosphere

2:27:30type of thing.

2:27:31I do think we had us add urgency to the situation.

2:27:33My original interest was just like we're going to run out of oil and then

2:27:37civilization is going to collapse and so if we don't have some kind of

2:27:42sustainable energy situation which really is electric cars solar energy

2:27:46and electric cars then civilization is going to fall apart and we'll be back in

2:27:53the Stone Age or something like someone bad you know but we're not going to be

2:27:57able to move forward. It won't be a good future. So my interest in electric cars was

2:28:04like, okay, how do we make this work? And you think of it like a gasoline car. I mean,

2:28:11it's got an electric motor and a battery just to start the car. You know, electric

2:28:16cars like way simpler than a gasoline car just need, it's just a range question. So

2:28:23In the early days of cars, there were almost as many electric cars as there were gasoline

2:28:29cars in the very early days.

2:28:31But the batteries didn't have enough range.

2:28:34So as soon as they had an electric starter, you didn't have to crank the engine, then gasoline

2:28:42cars won because they had the range.

2:28:46So it was really a question of how do you solve the range problem.

2:28:50And when I first came out to California, the reason I came out to California was to work

2:28:58on energy storage solutions for electric cars, basically advanced, about ways to store electric

2:29:07energy that would give you a long range.

2:29:12So in my summer internships I worked at this company called Pinnacle Research that did

2:29:18energy density capacitors. Now they used a ruthenium and tantalum which are

2:29:26ruthenium especially quite rare. You cannot scale that because there's not

2:29:30enough ruthenium. Where does that come from? It's a trace element. It's coming

2:29:38from like radioactive decay and like you know meteorites and that kind of thing.

2:29:43It's rare.

2:29:47I think at the time, it was only like, it's like impossible

2:29:52to scale.

2:29:53It doesn't matter how smart you get.

2:29:54You can't scale something.

2:29:55It was using Rethium.

2:29:57This is not enough of it.

2:30:00It was like rarer than gold.

2:30:02It's way better for like trying to make cars

2:30:04than powered by gold.

2:30:05Is there any argument that there's not enough conflict

2:30:08minerals to go around?

2:30:09Because that's what they call them,

2:30:10like conflict minerals, things like lithium.

2:30:13Now, lithium is extremely common.

2:30:14Is it?

2:30:15Yeah.

2:30:15Lithium is everywhere.

2:30:18Lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe.

2:30:22It's at number three on the periodic table.

2:30:23So we've got to lithium in pretty much everywhere.

2:30:26Where do we get it?

2:30:29Well, I mean, Tesla, we get most of our lithium

2:30:31from Australia, actually.

2:30:36But you can get lithium from sea water, if you wanted to.

2:30:40It's really, yeah.

2:30:40Lithium just forms a salt.

2:30:42And that's the primary component of the batteries?

2:30:45Or what else is in there?

2:30:47It's a misnomer, actually.

2:30:48It's called lithium-ion.

2:30:50That's like the salt in the salad.

2:30:53It's like, do you like salt in your salad?

2:30:55Sure.

2:30:55But it's not made of salt.

2:31:00I mean, the primary component in lithium-ion batteries,

2:31:04like in a Tesla, is nickel.

2:31:08And nickel is also relatively common.

2:31:10It's not super common.

2:31:10Iron is very common.

2:31:11So the two main types of battery pack are iron and nickel.

2:31:22And iron is very common.

2:31:24So much as a ridiculous amount of iron,

2:31:26just like this ridiculous amount of lithium.

2:31:28Now, nickel's a little more unusual.

2:31:31So not that unusual, but it's way

2:31:38much harder to get nickel than iron.

2:31:40But for example, stainless steel, you know, that'll be, you know, 12, 12, it's a quote

2:31:51of 10 to 20 percent nickel, depending on the situation.

2:31:55Like, cutlery, you know, like knives and forks will be like electroplated nickel silver.

2:32:03That's what EPNS means.

2:32:06So you've got like nickel based cells and you've got iron based cells.

2:32:13The nickel based cells have more energy density like so.

2:32:16For a given amount of volume and mass you're going to get more energy out of nickel than

2:32:20iron.

2:32:23Iron is cheaper.

2:32:25And so anyway those are two main types of cells.

2:32:28They've got an iron cathode, nickel cathode.

2:32:32And then some of the nickel cathodes have some of them on a cobalt to stabilize nickel.

2:32:37And then iron, it's like the, usually iron phosphate, you go like, you know, but it's

2:32:41really mostly, it's like the heavy stuff is iron.

2:32:44And the heavy stuff is nickel and the nickel based stuff.

2:32:46So you've got nickel iron and then you've got the anode side, which is basically a carbon

2:32:53lattice with a little bit of a silken sometimes.

2:32:58So and then these, these, these, uh, lithium ions, they like, they, they sort of trundle

2:33:03back and forth between the cathode and the anode.

2:33:09So I mean, just read the wick, if you read the Wikipedia article on lithium ion, it's

2:33:16quite, quite good.

2:33:18Um, anyway, so the, the, the, the, the channel, like the rate of which we are producing what

2:33:26what are cold lithium ion cells, but really primarily iron and nickel cells, is increasing

2:33:33very, very rapidly year over year.

2:33:35It's just that in order to compensate for an economy which is fundamentally based on

2:33:43fossil fuels, you need a shit ton of batteries.

2:33:48So a gigaton, giga shit ton of batteries.

2:33:53And that is what, that's going to happen.

2:33:56This is a question of when.

2:33:57That's why I say the fundamental good of Tesla is to what degree it accelerates the

2:34:01advent of sustainable energy.

2:34:03It's inevitable.

2:34:05We have sustainable energy.

2:34:06It's total logical.

2:34:07It's either we have sustainable energy or civilization collapses.

2:34:11So if civilization doesn't collapse, we will have sustainable energy.

2:34:14This is a question of how soon does that happen?

2:34:17Sooner is better.

2:34:20And then the, you know, there's a risk that we're incurring because of the increased

2:34:26parts per million of CO2 and the oceans and atmosphere.

2:34:32It has some acidification.

2:34:34It makes the water look a little bit more acidic.

2:34:38And it just causes the air to be a little warmer, not a lot.

2:34:44I think sometimes people look at the temperature, especially in Celsius.

2:34:48you might say like okay it's like 20 degrees Celsius I mean can a small PPM

2:34:55increase in carbon really move the needle that much but but actually you

2:35:00should be looking at it in degrees Kelvin so then it's like actually it's

2:35:04like more like we're at around 300 Kelvin and so you know what would it

2:35:10take to have like only a point 3% increase would be 1 degree Celsius 2

2:35:15degrees Fahrenheit. So therefore, this is actually, you know, it's more, it's a smaller

2:35:23percentage increase than you'd think when looking at temperature in the absolute as

2:35:27opposed to, you know, above the freezing point of water. So, and then if people weren't

2:35:33just living right on the water, then that would also help a lot. But it's just like,

2:35:38We love loving right on the water.

2:35:40So humanity is like a thermometer.

2:35:44It's like, you look at like a thermometer,

2:35:47like old school sort of analog thermometer,

2:35:51which is like changing the temperature

2:35:56as a function of like some liquid

2:35:57that is increasing its volume due to temperature.

2:36:00It only takes a little bit of a small increase in volume

2:36:03to raise the temperature on an old school analog liquid

2:36:08of thermometer and humanities like that. We've just decided that we want to

2:36:12write on the damn beach. So because the beach is cool. Now the problem is

2:36:18you're like, it's kind of like if we wanted to say what's the most

2:36:22sensitive instrument you could like how can we maximize our sensitivity to

2:36:27water level? Well live right on the ocean. Well okay we just did that. Yeah.

2:36:33And then it's like, okay, well, you know, and by the way, throughout history, the water

2:36:42level has varied a lot.

2:36:44It's like nutty, how much it's varied.

2:36:49And then if you look at, say, the CO2, parts per million, you know, based on the fossil

2:36:53record, I mean, it just looks like a wall.

2:36:57I'm not like a doomsayer here.

2:36:59My view is that if provided we are not complacent about a sustained energy economy, I think things will be fine.

2:37:09If we are complacent about it, that's where our problems arise.

2:37:12So, like to be totally frank, I think we'll be fine.

2:37:17But as long as we don't behave as though we're going to be fine, we will be fine.

2:37:23If we don't take it for granted, if we're not complacent, I think we'll be fine.

2:37:31Do you anticipate any large leaps in battery technology?

2:37:37Is there anything that can be done to increase the efficiency, increase the manufacturing

2:37:44abilities?

2:37:45What can be done to move that?

2:38:02that the the the ball is in motion in this like the good things that are happening are

2:38:08happening like the the rate at which we are making new we're increasing the production

2:38:14capacity of batteries it's it's increasing at a rate of that I think we haven't seen

2:38:19in a century it's like it's crazy fast it's just that in order to change from a fossil

2:38:28I feel economy too, kind of like a solar wind battery economy.

2:38:37It just halved a lot of batteries needed.

2:38:44I mean, my top recommendation, honestly,

2:38:45would be just to have a carbon tax.

2:38:48The economy works great.

2:38:50Prices and money are just information.

2:38:55Prices are information.

2:38:56If the price is wrong, the economy doesn't do the right thing.

2:39:00So we got basically an unpriced externality in the carbon concentration in the ocean's

2:39:07atmosphere.

2:39:09It's kind of like not paying for garbage removal or something.

2:39:13Like, OK, everyone's going to throw a garbage in the street.

2:39:16It's like, garbage removal is free.

2:39:18But there's a little bit of like, OK, garbage removal isn't for you.

2:39:22You've got to pay a little bit for this.

2:39:24And because we're not paying for the CO2 capacity

2:39:28of the ocean as an atmosphere, we have what an economics

2:39:32is called an unpriced externality.

2:39:34So the market is unable to respond to an unpriced externality.

2:39:40If we just put a price on it, the market

2:39:42will react in a sensible way.

2:39:45But because we don't have a price on it,

2:39:47and it's doing just baving badly.

2:39:50So theoretically, how would you put a price on that?

2:39:52Would you look at various industries

2:39:54and how they contribute to the CO2?

2:39:57Yeah, I mean, just put it at the point of consumption.

2:39:59And tax it.

2:40:00It ends up being, yeah, electricity and gasoline,

2:40:04pretty much.

2:40:05Now, you could make this an on aggressive tax.

2:40:07You could say, OK, well, what if somebody is driving around

2:40:10a lot and they're low income?

2:40:11It's like, OK, great, give them a rebate.

2:40:14So it's like, tax rebate.

2:40:18That's the way to do it.

2:40:21And then the market will be forced to respond to the fact

2:40:23The market would just this things automatically based on pricing.

2:40:27So markets work great if the pricing is great.

2:40:31It's only when something, you have a tragedy of the commons and the price is not there that

2:40:37the market does not respond.

2:40:39Nor would you expect it to.

2:40:42So if you have like the public toilets problem where it's like nobody's responsible for it,

2:40:48nobody's paying for it.

2:40:49like, okay, we'll probably tell that they're not good.

2:40:54So, as soon as you put a price in it,

2:40:57the right thing will happen automatically.

2:41:01Is there been a response to this?

2:41:02Like, is this something that's-

2:41:04I talked to the Biden administration

2:41:05and coming to the administration and they were like,

2:41:07well, this seems politically difficult.

2:41:10And I was like, well, this is obviously a thing

2:41:12that should happen.

2:41:13And by the way, SpaceX would be paying a carbon tax too.

2:41:15Sure.

2:41:16So I'm like, you know, I'm like,

2:41:18I think we should pay it too.

2:41:20It's not like we shouldn't have carbon generating things.

2:41:24There's got to be a price on this stuff.

2:41:27And that would encourage people to make either carbon neutral

2:41:30or automatically fix the problem.

2:41:33No, for sure.

2:41:35I was thinking about taxes.

2:41:37It's like, here we are drinking alcohol.

2:41:40Now, taxes on alcohol and tobacco are higher

2:41:44than on, let's say, fruit and vegetables.

2:41:48Okay, because everyone knows like

2:41:50food and vegetables are good for you.

2:41:52And alcohol and tobacco are not good for you.

2:41:55Nice.

2:41:56Yeah.

2:41:58So we're like, yeah, you should probably buy us the taxes

2:42:01towards alcohol and tobacco,

2:42:03have higher tax than alcohol and tobacco,

2:42:06and lower taxes are fruits and vegetables.

2:42:08Yeah, it's just sensible.

2:42:10Like same thing goes for our energy.

2:42:14Yeah, that seems very reasonable.

2:42:16I don't understand how that would be politically difficult.

2:42:19I don't know.

2:42:19I talked to the incoming Biden administration.

2:42:21I was like, I just thought, well, for sure.

2:42:23I mean, it's like half the reason they got elected.

2:42:25And even some sort of an incremental increase over time.

2:42:29Yeah, exactly.

2:42:30We don't need to learn people.

2:42:31Yeah, just say it just if you just say it's coming,

2:42:34people will automatically make the changes.

2:42:37That seems so reasonable.

2:42:38Yeah, I agree.

2:42:40And they were like, uh-uh.

2:42:42They thought it was like too politically difficult.

2:42:44I'm like, I mean, I don't know, man.

2:42:47I think that's like at least half the reason you got elected.

2:42:49So why don't you just fight for that?

2:42:51You know?

2:42:52Yeah, it's a factor.

2:42:53It's the optics where they're the more reasonable people.

2:42:57They're going to bring us back to the Paris Climate Accord

2:42:59and the whole.

2:43:01Yeah.

2:43:02I mean, the thing is, the Paris Accord,

2:43:04that doesn't just a piece of paper

2:43:05unless you do something about it.

2:43:08I mean, it's probably the Paris Accord is,

2:43:13Yeah, it's pretty much toothless, you know.

2:43:15And even if we did that thing,

2:43:17I probably still don't know if,

2:43:19it's just one thing that would matter,

2:43:21put a price in a carbon.

2:43:23That would be the best option.

2:43:24For sure.

2:43:26That seems like it'd be such a good idea.

2:43:29I mean, I think it's obvious move.

2:43:31And if you just call up like, you know,

2:43:35say like top economists, like just do a poll of,

2:43:37like what do 90% of economists think?

2:43:40and they all agree, okay, we should do that.

2:43:43Well, also, if you think about the variability

2:43:45of gas prices, it changes so much.

2:43:48Like, how about the difference between gas

2:43:50in California versus gas in Texas?

2:43:53So, a giant difference.

2:43:54Giant difference.

2:43:55Yeah, you know, by the way, I'm actually not in favor

2:43:59of like demonizing the, well, on gas industry,

2:44:03because we can't like stop instantaneously

2:44:06and not have oil and gas.

2:44:08Right.

2:44:09We'll like diastorivation basically.

2:44:13That's always the argument against it, right?

2:44:16We need fossil fuels and this is sort of the short-sighted argument.

2:44:21We're going to need to burn fossil fuels for a long time.

2:44:25The question is just what rate do we move to a sustainable energy future?

2:44:30So I think we should probably move there faster than slower.

2:44:39But I mean the current approach is basically just to

2:44:43demonize oil and gas.

2:44:46And I'm like, okay, well, obviously,

2:44:48there are people who spend their whole career

2:44:51and oil and gas and they started out in their career

2:44:53when it didn't seem like that bad of a thing to do.

2:44:55So then they're like, hey man, I just spent my whole career

2:44:59working hard to do useful things and now you're telling me I'm the devil. I may

2:45:03have that's like gonna make them pretty upset you know so I say like instead of

2:45:09demonizing oil and gas which also they should stop lobbying against the carbon

2:45:13tax by the way then just like honestly the smartest thing the oil and gas industry

2:45:20could do we'd say let's do a carbon tax and then we'll just do a carbon tax and

2:45:24make us not the devil. Meg is not the devil and they'll still make a fuckload of

2:45:28money. So we'll be fine. We find. Yeah. That seems so

2:45:34reasonable. I can't imagine how anybody would argue against

2:45:37that. That's what I thought. I don't know. I think the Biden

2:45:39administration should take a strong stance on this situation.

2:45:42What political candidates endorsed a carbon tax? Did

2:45:46Bernie Sanders endorse a carbon tax? I don't know. He might

2:45:49have. It seems super reasonable. I mean, I mean, like I

2:45:57I kind of like, even though he's a communist, I kind of like Bernie Sanders.

2:46:00Yeah, I like him too.

2:46:03I think he means well.

2:46:07Yeah, I think he means well.

2:46:08The best part about him.

2:46:09And he's been remarkably consistent in meaning well his whole life.

2:46:14And they kept fucking throwing him right under the bus.

2:46:17Yeah, absolutely.

2:46:18Two election cycles in a row.

2:46:21Yeah, I think it is hilarious that he went to the Soviet Union three days after his wedding

2:46:26for like 10 days.

2:46:28It was like a mayor of a city,

2:46:31like a mayor in Vermont.

2:46:32I'm like, you're a dude.

2:46:34How do you explain days six through 10?

2:46:36Don't you get it?

2:46:40Didn't you see everything you needed to say?

2:46:42That's a long time.

2:46:43I'm like KGB interview is taking that long.

2:46:51Carbon tax seems like the most reasonable thing

2:46:56that anyone could ever ask of an industry that is without a doubt causing some problems.

2:47:03I mean, there's no one saying it doesn't cause problems.

2:47:07People would deny the extent of the problem, but no one says that XSCO2 from, you know,

2:47:14from emissions is not an issue.

2:47:15I mean, like, like, like, like, Exxon's own scientists said, uh, in like the, I think

2:47:23like the late 70s, like we think there might be a problem here with climate change due to the CO2.

2:47:29It's like internal, their own documents, their own people, and they were like, be quiet.

2:47:34Isn't it weird when environmental things become political though, when the denial of

2:47:38the environmental thing is like predominantly from some factions of the right, and then,

2:47:44you know, like the opposite is from some factions, and then it becomes a political thing, so they

2:47:48dig their heels in the sand. And they're like, no, no, no. This is fine. This is the way the

2:47:54earth is a cycle, a natural cycle. And it becomes this mantra that they repeat.

2:48:01It's true there is a natural cycle, but that does not explain the situation.

2:48:04Right. The wall.

2:48:05It's a wall, man. I mean, you just look at carbon parts per million, and it just looks

2:48:11like a wall. Like that just goes like blah blah blah. You know, two to three hundred

2:48:17parts per million. Bam, 400. I don't know where. There's also some weird arguments that some

2:48:22people will make in terms of the impact that it has on plant life and that it actually is

2:48:30making the earth greener. Oh, I think that's actually true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's

2:48:35not necessarily okay still causes problems. Yeah I mean I'm trying to be

2:48:41like as precise I mean or at least the least amount wrong that I can be I'm

2:48:48trying to be the least amount wrong. Plants live off carbon dioxide so the

2:48:53more it more CO2 well that does improve plant growth it's true yeah like

2:49:00like I said I don't think based on where we are provided we're not

2:49:05complacent provided we don't take things for granted I think we'll be fine but if

2:49:10we're complacent and we take things for granted and we just proceed like everything's fine

2:49:14and we continue on the momentum of CO2 emissions we're taking a big risk and

2:49:24especially big risk is if there's a non-linear event okay so CO2 PPM

2:49:31Watch for a million has been increasing, you know, pretty reliably two or three PPM per year,

2:49:39but you could have a nonlinear event.

2:49:43What would constitute a nonlinear event?

2:49:45If we melt the Siberian tundra, there's like a massive amount of trapped gas and dead plant

2:49:54matter that's frozen solid.

2:49:57Now if that warms up, and that decays,

2:50:02and that could put a massive amount of CO2

2:50:04into the atmosphere, potentially.

2:50:09And then, it's like, how are we,

2:50:12what are the carbon sinks?

2:50:14And if you saturate the carbon sinks,

2:50:16and you have a sudden release of CO2

2:50:23from something that was previously frozen solid,

2:50:26That's where you could have a non-linearity

2:50:27and things could go haywire pretty fast.

2:50:29What could happen then?

2:50:33I mean, earth it heat up, the water level would rise.

2:50:38You'd have a higher probability of extreme weather events.

2:50:44Sure, we hit the fan.

2:50:45Sure, we hit the fan.

2:50:46Sure, we hit the fan.

2:50:48Like, I'm not saying for sure,

2:50:49sure we hit the fan, but I was saying

2:50:50like the probability increases with time.

2:50:53So you can't just change the chemical makeup of the atmosphere and oceans and expect nothing

2:51:00going to happen.

2:51:01This is just a chemical reaction, man.

2:51:03It's like, yeah.

2:51:06Is there anything to think of?

2:51:07It's like, why are we even running this experiment?

2:51:09Right.

2:51:10So the crazy thing is like, hey, we know we need to have a sustainable energy economy long

2:51:14term because we're going to run out oil.

2:51:17So then we got, we're running this crazy experiment to see what is the effect of massively,

2:51:24of taking billions of tons of carbon that was deep underground, putting in the atmosphere

2:51:30and oceans, and what's going to happen is result that.

2:51:36And it's a crazy, it's like literally the craziest experiment in human history because

2:51:41we know no matter what that we have to have a sustainable energy future, we have to,

2:51:47otherwise civilization will collapse.

2:51:50So what the hell are we running this experiment for?

2:51:53Because we're accustomed to doing things a certain way.

2:51:56This is going to go down as the most

2:51:58foolish experiment in the history of human civilization.

2:52:02Is it possible to create some sort of carbon extraction

2:52:06technology that will significantly impact the amount of CO2

2:52:09that's in the air or mitigate the emissions?

2:52:19Yeah, I mean, so I just actually announced that I'm

2:52:23funding this $100 million carbon capture prize to find out

2:52:28the answer to that question.

2:52:30So right now, all of the carbon capture methods that we're

2:52:33aware of are very expensive.

2:52:35The cost per ton is very expensive.

2:52:37And then even if money's not an issue,

2:52:38you have to say, OK, how much wind or solar energy was

2:52:42required to pull carbon out of the atmosphere

2:52:48And I don't know, make it in solid form,

2:52:50make a cube of it or something, just a giant cube.

2:52:56We don't actually know the answer to that question.

2:52:59That's why I'm giving 100 million dollars

2:53:01to this carbon capture price to try to get a better answer.

2:53:05But there's nothing good that we're aware of right now.

2:53:07Not currently.

2:53:08Not currently that we're aware of.

2:53:09Because there's a point of diminishing returns,

2:53:11the amount of energy that you would need in order to.

2:53:13You basically, CO2 has a very low energy state.

2:53:19And naturally, so it's like you burn something, you combine oxygen with fuel, with hydrocarbons,

2:53:26and the net result is CO2 and H2O, basically, and there's a bunch of other stuff too, but

2:53:31primarily it's carbon dioxide and water, mostly carbon dioxide.

2:53:40So obviously it goes from a high energy state, we use that to power our cars or our power

2:53:44plants, and then it ends up in a low energy state, which is CO2 in the atmosphere.

2:53:49And then, like I said, much more gets in the ocean.

2:53:52So naturally, that therefore requires a lot of energy

2:53:57to rebind that in solid form.

2:54:00It doesn't want to just, you've got to put a lot of energy

2:54:04in to bind it.

2:54:05And then you want it to be something

2:54:07that's going to be stable in solid form for a long time.

2:54:10This is a hard problem.

2:54:14There was a concept.

2:54:16I don't know if it was implemented,

2:54:17but in China they developed essentially

2:54:19like a giant building that was,

2:54:23you know, you wear this?

2:54:25I don't know if they actually did it.

2:54:27Did they want, we talked about this before Jamie,

2:54:30did they ever wind up doing that?

2:54:32It was like a building that was essentially

2:54:33like a giant air filter.

2:54:36And they were gonna use it,

2:54:37but that might have been about particulates

2:54:39more than it was about CO2.

2:54:42Right, maybe more of it.

2:54:44By the way, I have to be, you know,

2:54:46Say a good word here for China. China has the

2:54:52Some of them for any large economy has the most progressive

2:54:56Pro-environmental rules of any large economy really yeah

2:55:00They're like super supportive of electric vehicles of solar power of wind

2:55:05They actually even made a giant solar field in the shape of a panda, which break you

2:55:09So, and it's actually funny thing that happened.

2:55:14Like for a long time, China was like not,

2:55:17you know, was not buying into the carbon thing.

2:55:20You know, like they were like,

2:55:21oh, it's just like a bunch of soft westerners there.

2:55:23Like they're just a bunch of environmental softies.

2:55:27And then at some point, like,

2:55:29senior members of the Chinese government, they, you know,

2:55:31they say, well, let's like ask the, you know,

2:55:34engineering professors like at the university.

2:55:37Like, what do they think?

2:55:38Oh, yeah, no, it's definitely real.

2:55:40Like, wait, you mean it's real?

2:55:42Well, like, yeah, yeah, it's real.

2:55:44And then like, holy shit, immediate change.

2:55:47Well, that's the power of having the government

2:55:49in business inexorably intertwined,

2:55:52so they can kind of decide how business

2:55:55is gonna react and what's gonna happen, right?

2:55:57Yeah, I think people don't realize,

2:55:59China is super pro-environment right now,

2:56:01like way more than America.

2:56:03Is that their thing?

2:56:04The skyscraper size air purifier is the world's tallest.

2:56:08Look at that thing. So that's an air purifier. But that's the thing is like is that pulling

2:56:13particulates out of the atmosphere or is that actually taking carbon out? You know an air purifier.

2:56:19So, air purifier not. It's super hard to capture carbon. Look at that. Jesus Christ imagine falling

2:56:26into that. I mean naturally it's just fundamental thermodynamics like you know you release a lot

2:56:36of energy that resulted in the CO2. So now you got to use a lot of energy to capture it.

2:56:42Yeah. Made a particulate matter no bigger than 2.5 microns in diameter.

2:56:48Yeah. Yeah. That's like a hard, particularly difficult to filter two microns.

2:56:55Oh, you know, so I don't know. Most people probably don't know, but like model S and X have a

2:57:02hospital grade HEPA filters, so and they will actually drop the

2:57:08two mark on PPM level to almost undetectable in the car. Really? Yeah. So if you're in some sort

2:57:15of a biological disaster area, you can drive through your Tesla. Yes. It's literally this like

2:57:22biohazard defense mode where it basically pressurizes the car. So it's like the car is

2:57:28is that under positive pressure with all the air coming

2:57:31through a gigantic HEPA filter.

2:57:35And then even the air inside the car

2:57:38is recirculating in a secondary filter.

2:57:40It's got the most advanced filtration system of any car

2:57:43by far.

2:57:44It literally hospital-grade.

2:57:46You could do an operation in the car.

2:57:48It's insane.

2:57:48That's awesome.

2:57:49Yeah, we've got a little carried away.

2:57:52I'm glad you get carried away.

2:57:54You know the other thing I thought is that Jamie's got the X.

2:57:56And one of the things I love about the X is when it gets hit, they literally can't flip over.

2:58:01Oh yeah.

2:58:02It's like one of those things that you punch the thing and it just comes back up.

2:58:07Yeah, they couldn't flip it over in the test.

2:58:12So it would roll on a side and then roll back.

2:58:15And it's amazing.

2:58:16It's a very low center of gravity.

2:58:20That's giant.

2:58:21Yeah, exactly.

2:58:22That is so fucking cool.

2:58:23That's so fucking cool.

2:58:24It's not exactly it's rolls back on.

2:58:26I mean, there's not another car like that in the world.

2:58:31No, every other car in the world would just fucking roll.

2:58:35It's pretty amazing, man.

2:58:36Yeah, even if you did manage to bang it on the roof,

2:58:39it like you can stack like five cars on top of a Model S or X.

2:58:44Wow.

2:58:45No, you guys still making the X?

2:58:47Yeah.

2:58:48You're still gonna do the crazy doors?

2:58:50The crazy doors.

2:58:51Those doors are exercising hubris.

2:58:53That's for sure.

2:58:55Well, that's a lot of things you do.

2:58:57There's an exercise in hubris.

2:58:59Well, some things are really important and necessary.

2:59:03Some things are, you know, some things are not necessary.

2:59:11So the doors, but the thing is...

2:59:13The doors are not necessary, but they're very cool.

2:59:15I'll say functional though, if you're in a tight spot.

2:59:18Yeah, those doors will open up tighter than almost any door out there.

2:59:23Like you can even, they'll open up in 18 inches.

2:59:26You got an 18 inch gap between you and the next car,

2:59:28that door will open.

2:59:29That's pretty amazing.

2:59:30So, we developed, I mean, just in order to avoid having a puck,

2:59:39like an ultrasonic puck in the door, we developed the best of my knowledge.

2:59:43What's an ultrasonic puck mean?

2:59:45So, like the ultrasonic sensors that you have in a car,

2:59:50if you look carefully, you'll see that there's a little puck,

2:59:52like a little isolation ring, like a rubber isolation ring.

2:59:55And that's when the sonar, which is like basically a loudspeaker,

2:59:59is generating ultrasonic noise and then listening to the echoes.

3:00:05But normally, in order to listen to the echoes,

3:00:08you've got to isolate the thing that's generating the sound.

3:00:12So that's why if you look carefully around how

3:00:15as you'll see these little pucks, these little circles.

3:00:17And those are the ultrasonic sensors.

3:00:20And we didn't want to have an ultrasonic sensor in the door,

3:00:25but we also didn't want the door to bat some kid out of the way.

3:00:28It's like just doofy.

3:00:32There's a haymaker or something.

3:00:33So we developed the best amount of knowledge.

3:00:37The only ultrasonic sensor that can see through metal.

3:00:42So it's mounted on the inside of the door on isolation mounts,

3:00:48and it's super loud and then it's got cancellation because it's kind of basically

3:00:53screaming at itself and it's listening for a tiny echo on the other side of the metal

3:00:57just to avoid having a little rubber ring in the bottom of the door. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

3:01:04We put in a capacitive sensor, an inductive sensor, a four-speed back sensor,

3:01:10and ultrasonic so I can see through metal. This is what I say exercise in hubris. I mean, I'm like,

3:01:16Wow.

3:01:17Is that the most ridiculous car you've created?

3:01:19Yeah.

3:01:20This is a Faberge.

3:01:21The Model X is the Faberge Egg of cars.

3:01:24It's crazy.

3:01:27I mean, for like the six-seaters,

3:01:30like for the seats, the seats are on a rear incline

3:01:36single post with the seat movement mechanism hidden

3:01:42in the floor.

3:01:42So if you open the door and you look through,

3:01:45It's completely clean.

3:01:46It's just like in the floors like a knife edge.

3:01:49There's nothing else like it.

3:01:52It's crazy.

3:01:54That windscreen is like a helicopter windscreen.

3:01:58And there's no place to attach the sun visors.

3:02:03So we have to have sun visors that nest in the A pillar

3:02:08rotate forward, have a magnetic attachment that pops out,

3:02:13and it connects to the rear view mirror.

3:02:18But you seem very proud of all that.

3:02:21You say all these details and they sound really crazy.

3:02:25That's great.

3:02:25It's pretty awesome.

3:02:27I mean, the sound system and the X is awesome.

3:02:32I mean, we designed so that the sound system is taking into account the fact

3:02:35that the windscreen is like a giant subwoofer resonator.

3:02:41Like the windscreen is a resonator for the sound system if the sound system is epic in the X

3:02:48It's good on the s2. It's even better in the new s

3:02:52Have you thought about doing a plaid X?

3:02:55Yeah, there's gonna be a plaid X to yeah

3:02:57Which is like bizarrely fast for an SUV that's coming out. Well isn't already bizarrely fast. You said it was preposterous right?

3:03:05Yeah

3:03:07It's like, it really is like, it was two fast probably.

3:03:11Have you increased the range of the X?

3:03:13Like what is the range of the X currently?

3:03:15It's like 300 something?

3:03:17Yeah, 300 something.

3:03:18So it'll be like high 300.

3:03:21And is the difference between the X and the S,

3:03:24the aerodynamics?

3:03:26Like what is the range?

3:03:28Yeah, the X weighs more and it's got

3:03:30a bigger cross-sectional area.

3:03:32So something called the CDA drag coefficient,

3:03:34drag coefficient times a frontal area,

3:03:36is higher for the X as you'd expect and the weight is higher so it's gonna be 10 to 15%

3:03:46less range for the same battery pack as the S. The first time I saw an X Tiffany Haddish

3:03:50had one and she was in the comedy store parking lot and she had it dancing for us. Oh yeah music

3:03:54and dancing like this. A lot of people don't know that the Model X can do this crazy like ballet

3:03:59thing with the fucking dances. Oh yeah. With the doors we're going up and down and the music

3:04:04and we were all dancing in the parking lot to this car.

3:04:08Yeah, it's crazy.

3:04:11What is your, do you have a favorite that you've created?

3:04:14Car, I mean, or?

3:04:15Yeah.

3:04:17Not rocket.

3:04:18That's a little...

3:04:29Well, the car I drive every day,

3:04:33or tend to drive is the high performance Model S.

3:04:38And like the Model S,

3:04:40so the Model S, I basically just said,

3:04:42I don't know what other people like,

3:04:43but I know what I love.

3:04:44And I want to just make a car that's the car that I love.

3:04:47And hopefully there'll be enough people out there

3:04:50who also love the car.

3:04:52So the reason I love the Model S

3:04:54is because I just designed the car that I would love.

3:04:57That's it.

3:04:59And then it's like, OK, well, how can we

3:05:00use a lot of the same technology to also create an SUV?

3:05:04Because a lot of people like an SUV,

3:05:06and you've got more seats and more room and a higher seat

3:05:11sitting higher.

3:05:14So, what cool things, what are the cool things,

3:05:17I mean like I said, excising hubris,

3:05:18we just got carried away,

3:05:19what are all the cool things we can think of

3:05:21for an SUV?

3:05:27Frans and I had a lot of discussions about this.

3:05:32And JV struggled back in the day

3:05:34and drew back Lino and Jerome

3:05:39and it's a lot of talented people.

3:05:42Tesla's relative to a lot of talented people, that's for sure.

3:05:51The car that's the most fun to show for others is the Model X for sure.

3:05:54So, it's a great car.

3:05:59But I thought, like, you know, is this really part of our mission?

3:06:03Like we're trying to, the mission from Tesla from the beginning

3:06:07has been to accelerate the advent of sustainable energy.

3:06:11So, all we really do in the right thing

3:06:14by creating this Faberge egg of cars with the Model X.

3:06:17Ehh, me too.

3:06:19Totally, Frank.

3:06:20It's not entirely consistent without mission because there's too many bells and whistles.

3:06:24Yeah, but isn't it though, because Americans love SUVs and what better way to entice them

3:06:29into embracing sustainable energy than give them the dopest SUV you can buy?

3:06:34Yeah.

3:06:36That's how we justify it in terms of...

3:06:38That means it's not a justification.

3:06:39It's a great carrot.

3:06:41You're dangling an amazing carrot.

3:06:43Yeah.

3:06:44Actually, in terms of, you know, CR2 per mile,

3:06:47also SUVs are like among the worst, you know,

3:06:50like this very, SUVs typically very low mileage,

3:06:53take a lot of gasoline per mile.

3:06:55So, you know, if you're replacing, you know, big SUVs,

3:06:59that's actually like the best thing you could do

3:07:02on a per mile basis.

3:07:03But still, we really got carried away, you know.

3:07:08The Faber-Shay Ag of cars.

3:07:10Nobody's ever gonna make a car like that.

3:07:12Explain to me what the fuck Bill Gates was talking about when he was saying that you can't do trucks.

3:07:17Well, what was...

3:07:19Yeah, I didn't know what he was talking about.

3:07:20Why did he say that then?

3:07:21Like, why would someone...

3:07:22Probably somebody told him that and, you know, he's not...

3:07:25He just repeated it.

3:07:26He's just not that close to the physics of it and so...

3:07:28Because I remember...

3:07:29I don't think he's ill-intentioned here.

3:07:30Right.

3:07:31He just doesn't know what he's talking about.

3:07:32But why say it then?

3:07:33I mean, you're thinking about a guy who's so involved in technology, you would think you would only talk about things you understand.

3:07:39I don't know, I'm swear.

3:07:40I also heard that at one point he had a big short position against Tesla, which was kind of I don't know if that's true or not

3:07:45but it seems weird

3:07:47People I know who know no situation well there that said are you sure they said yeah

3:07:52He's a big short position against Tesla, which obviously didn't work out too well

3:07:57But anyway, I think he's generally got good intentions here. I think he's probably just not

3:08:03Well, I don't hate Bill Gates to be clear. I think he's just probably is no the science

3:08:08Yeah, I just thought it was odd because I knew that you guys were developing this semi.

3:08:11We have prototypes that actually drive.

3:08:14That actually drive.

3:08:15Like we've used them to transport cars and stuff.

3:08:17It's not like a unicorn.

3:08:20Like it was like a Pegasus or something.

3:08:22Like what are you talking about?

3:08:23We literally have prototypes that work.

3:08:25What kind of mileage do those things get?

3:08:28Well, these are prototypes.

3:08:29So they'll be like, you know, I don't know, about 300 miles, something like that.

3:08:33And so we drive them back and forth from Fremont to Reno, you know for

3:08:40transporting stuff. But generally when semi truck drivers, when it's a human being driving them, they drive for long periods of time, far more than 300 miles, right?

3:08:50No, actually most trucking is short range. Really?

3:08:53Yeah, majority. Okay. The majority, like, shipping things around cities and things on those sides.

3:08:58Yeah, it'll be like take stuff from the port to the straightforwarding.

3:09:01Will you have a long range like cross-continental version of it?

3:09:05Yeah, absolutely.

3:09:05And so it'll be much more batteries.

3:09:08And yeah, the, yeah.

3:09:16I mean, you want something on the order of like probably a 500 kilowatt hour pack.

3:09:22Like what we have in the S and the X is 100 kilowatt hour pack.

3:09:26And I probably want like, I don't know, 500 kilowatt hour pack for semi.

3:09:31But this is not a game changer on the mass,

3:09:34especially for a structural pack where the pack itself is,

3:09:39is the structure is the primary load carrying element in the vehicle.

3:09:43Is it potentially?

3:09:44It's not a game. It's definitely works 100% no question about it.

3:09:49Would it be possible to have a safer semi because of this whole way?

3:09:56Well, we can also like you have with the X. Yeah, the center of gravity would be really low.

3:10:02So that would certainly help. We can also

3:10:06We'd have motors individually controlling the wheels so we can just automatically and this was part of our semi presentation

3:10:14We can just the computer will automatically prevent it from jackniping like you know jackniping on a low

3:10:19Traction surfaces like truck drivers worst nightmare, you know, you're like some icy road icy mountainous road

3:10:26but the trailer slides, you know, where jacknives like that and you can slide off the edge of the hill.

3:10:31And you could stop that from happening even on an icy road?

3:10:34Yeah.

3:10:34Wow.

3:10:35So, because you have individual control over each of the wheels.

3:10:40So you can just make sure it's stable and it doesn't do jacknive.

3:10:45Whereas if you've got just one engine, it's very difficult to do that.

3:10:49So...

3:10:50Do you anticipate that eventually these things would be completely autonomous?

3:10:53like some like the one truck drivers.

3:10:56Eventually it will be autonomous,

3:10:58but we're still a way away from that.

3:11:01But in the short time,

3:11:03I think we can certainly see convoys.

3:11:05So, you know, we've got one truck driver

3:11:09and then there's like a whole bunch of trucks

3:11:10following that truck and you know,

3:11:12keeping like a distance so that other cars

3:11:14can pass in between them.

3:11:18It's sort of like having a train, but on the highway.

3:11:20It's like linked where it's just like one,

3:11:23like you got one, you know, truck driver in the front

3:11:27and then a whole series of trucks behind it

3:11:29that are following a convoy.

3:11:30But the trucks behind it are on time.

3:11:33And how much space between you could like,

3:11:34with the

3:11:39Oh, wow.

3:11:40Yeah, and those trucks just follow the lead.

3:11:41And it's just like, it's like having trains on the road.

3:11:44And they'll be following through,

3:11:46like just they know where the trucks ahead of them are

3:11:49at all times.

3:11:50easier to do a follow. You say follow this thing, no problem.

3:11:55What's next after this?

3:12:01Even after what products or something?

3:12:04Ultimately, do you think that you could have planes?

3:12:10I thought about planes for a long time.

3:12:16But my brain will explode if I do planes.

3:12:20literally, it's just like, this is too crazy, man.

3:12:23It's my brain is overloaded.

3:12:27So overloaded because of the complexity?

3:12:33Yeah, it's got too much stuff in my plate.

3:12:35Right.

3:12:36Yeah.

3:12:38I'm glad there's a limit.

3:12:39I'm glad you got a spot where you can't go any further.

3:12:44There's only so many hours in the day.

3:12:45Yeah.

3:12:46So I mean, I think there's, there

3:12:50There are improvements happening over time for the energy

3:12:54density of batteries, like the wet hours per,

3:12:58or should really be jewels, but like

3:13:01jewels per kilogram, jewels per liter,

3:13:05it's improving a little bit every year.

3:13:07So planes really need a high energy density,

3:13:11because you got to get up to altitude,

3:13:15because most of the energy is getting up to altitude.

3:13:17And then once you're in a low air density situation,

3:13:21you can cruise along with fairly,

3:13:23it takes very little energy to once you're in cruise.

3:13:26That's a massive amount of energy to get up there.

3:13:29So, man, I thought about this a lot.

3:13:43Yeah.

3:13:45I mean, an aircraft increases in neutral force balance.

3:13:47So it's like, it's not accelerating.

3:13:49So basically, if you've gotten a motor of a given force,

3:13:54then for a given force, you will just go faster as you go higher.

3:13:59So you've got the air resistance.

3:14:02The air resistance is dropping exponentially as you go higher.

3:14:05If you have a constant force from your motor and propeller

3:14:14or turbine, whatever, then you will just go faster.

3:14:18the higher you go, the faster you go, for the same amount of power.

3:14:22So to the key would be achieving a high altitude.

3:14:26Yeah, it's whole about altitude.

3:14:28Like the air is very thick at sea level.

3:14:34Like for the same amount of force that you would go say like half the speed of sound

3:14:40at sea level, you could go twice the speed of sound at like let's say at 100,000 feet.

3:14:47same amount of energy in cruise.

3:14:51This is a fly commercial plane at 100,000 feet.

3:14:55Would that be possible?

3:14:56Oh yeah, yeah.

3:14:57You just go fast.

3:14:57The great thing about that is you could bring flat

3:15:00earthers up there.

3:15:00Ha ha.

3:15:05The faster you go, the higher you go, the faster you want to go.

3:15:10Right.

3:15:12So like you're just thinking about the SR-71

3:15:16is that it's most fuel efficient speed,

3:15:20was its fastest speed pretty much, or pretty close,

3:15:24because that's when it could go the highest altitude.

3:15:28So because it could go faster at higher altitude,

3:15:31it got better miles per gallon at high speed than low speed.

3:15:37That's pretty wild.

3:15:39So altitude, because air density decays exponentially,

3:15:43and drag increases with the square.

3:15:45And so the exponential beats the square.

3:15:48Do you think there would ever be a time where Tesla could run itself

3:15:52in a sense of like you have enough talent that people running it and you

3:15:54wouldn't have to devote all your resources to

3:15:57to being there all the time and handling things and

3:16:00maybe you would think about planes?

3:16:05Yeah, I mean I'm committed to

3:16:08run Tesla for

3:16:10several years into the future.

3:16:12And there's still a lot of things we got to get done.

3:16:16could Tesla possibly expand the planes?

3:16:20It could.

3:16:22It is a different regime.

3:16:23I mean, there are no car companies that are aircraft companies, really.

3:16:33But I think there is a way, ultimately,

3:16:37to have a vertical take over landing supersonic electric jet.

3:16:44Wow.

3:16:45That would be cool.

3:16:47But what about the weight?

3:16:49That's where energy density of the pack is important.

3:16:55You need to get high.

3:16:57Quickly.

3:16:58Get high fast.

3:17:12And you can get rid of most of the things that are on a plane.

3:17:18If you gimbal the fan, you have the fan change direction,

3:17:24like you do with a rocket.

3:17:26You don't need like a rudder and you mostly don't need an elevator.

3:17:32You just need like some trim tabs.

3:17:36You basically have a flying wing.

3:17:37It's pretty easy to do a flying wing.

3:17:40Or a flying wing with a little bit of fuselage.

3:17:46So you make it lighter, make the pack structural as well.

3:17:52So the pack is the wing.

3:17:56You've got to basically pull a few tricks like that.

3:17:58is all about like, how do you make the non-cell portion of the aircraft as light as possible?

3:18:09Anyway, this is like a lot of regulatory things you have to go through and this is

3:18:15counting on a White House per kilogram. You'd want White House per kilogram at the pack

3:18:22the pack level to be over 400.

3:18:26Yeah.

3:18:28So we're pretty close to that.

3:18:30So it's like it's, you know, at the pack level, not at the cell level, but at the pack

3:18:36level and with high cycle life.

3:18:39Well, listen, you're doing plenty.

3:18:44You don't necessarily have to get into planes right now.

3:18:47Yeah.

3:18:48I think you're busy enough.

3:18:50This will be the last of the things, cars and trucks and then boats and then planes.

3:18:58Well, it's interesting because plane technology in terms of what commercial air travel has

3:19:02probably increased, at least visibly, to the consumer, the least in the last 30, 40,

3:19:1050 years.

3:19:11It's not much difference, the experience.

3:19:13Yeah.

3:19:14Pretty similar.

3:19:15Yep, in fact it's got slower.

3:19:16Right after the Concord.

3:19:17So right after the Concorde.

3:19:19I know you were the Concorde.

3:19:20Like the 747 was the fastest plane.

3:19:23Oh really?

3:19:23Yeah.

3:19:24Had a swept wings.

3:19:28So the wing sweep, like what's the wing angle?

3:19:30That's a big factor in what its cruise speed is going to be.

3:19:33So the 747 had a pretty steep wing.

3:19:39But its fuel efficiency is not as good as something

3:19:44like, you know, 777 or 787.

3:19:49I mean, there's some basic things in physics

3:19:52that are present almost everywhere.

3:19:56They sometimes take different form,

3:19:58but they're basically referring to the relationship

3:20:02between momentum and kinetic energy.

3:20:04Kinetic energy goes as a square of momentum as linear.

3:20:07And then the surface-to-volume ratio.

3:20:10service volume ratio and the momentum to kinetic energy ratio

3:20:18drives so much of mechanics is insane.

3:20:25It's like the reason that you don't have a single cell

3:20:27creature that is gigantic is because of surface volume ratio.

3:20:32There's a certain service volume ratio where diffusion works,

3:20:36and beyond that, diffusion does not work.

3:20:38you have to have a circulatory system. For aircraft or just generally you want to move

3:20:47a large mass of air slowly so you can reduce the velocity component of kinetic energy which

3:20:55goes as the square. You want to move a large amount of mass slowly, not a small amount of mass

3:21:00fast. So the way you make aircraft engines more efficient is you move a lot of air slowly,

3:21:07Like big fans, basically big slow fans, work great.

3:21:11Small, tiny, fast moving jets are very inefficient.

3:21:16So like, something like a 777, it's really just a

3:21:21propeller in a shroud.

3:21:28High bypass ratio.

3:21:29It's called a bypass ratio.

3:21:31Like how much of it is jet versus propeller?

3:21:33You want it to be mostly propeller.

3:21:35So this is clearly something you've been thinking about a lot.

3:21:38Oh sure, yeah, like for 13 years.

3:21:43Do you think it's going to be the next thing for you?

3:21:45No, I hope not.

3:21:46I hope not.

3:21:51There's some smart people I have to try and tackle it in.

3:21:53I think I hope they are successful.

3:21:57But just try to get high.

3:22:00Get high.

3:22:01Go fast.

3:22:01Get high.

3:22:02You will automatically go fast as you go higher.

3:22:05It's just air density is dropping exponentially.

3:22:09And you think of like in the limit, you got like a satellite.

3:22:11Satellite's going around the low earth over satellite's

3:22:14going around the earth 25 times the speed of sound.

3:22:17No propulsion.

3:22:21So if you get high enough, you just keep going.

3:22:26Obviously, you just want to go super high or the better.

3:22:30Now, like I said, why don't planes do that already?

3:22:32Well, so if you've got a combustion engine,

3:22:37it's got an aperture issue.

3:22:39So you're like, okay, how big is the hole

3:22:41in which you're ingesting air?

3:22:43And then bear in mind, air is mostly nitrogen, not oxygen.

3:22:47So you got a lot more chaff than you got wheat.

3:22:52And that's why, you know, it's like you're gonna design,

3:22:55and this thing's gonna work at sea level,

3:22:57it's gonna work in altitude,

3:22:59and then it's gonna drop off in efficiency quite a lot

3:23:02as you go higher.

3:23:04Otherwise, and then there's also like,

3:23:06if the air, some other issues are relating to depressurization, like how fast can you

3:23:10descend. But you really just want to go super high. And it's very difficult to design a

3:23:19combustion engine that is effective at a wide range of altitude. So like the air density

3:23:27at a hundred thousand feet is approximately 1% at sea level. So how the hell do you design

3:23:33a combustion, like an air burning, it's like an air,

3:23:37an air, there's something that's taking an air

3:23:39of combining with fuel and burning to work

3:23:41when you have a hundred fold difference in air density.

3:23:45Those like, this is an intractable problem.

3:23:49But if you have an electric fan, it's not burning anything.

3:23:52So aperture doesn't matter.

3:23:55It's a big deal.

3:23:57It seems like it would be the best way to fly.

3:23:59Yeah.

3:24:00Someone can figure out how to do it.

3:24:01We're like well over three hours in here.

3:24:07Wow. Amazing. That flies when you're here. Yeah. Wasted.

3:24:11Well thank you very much. As always it's a pleasure. Always fun to talk to you man. I really appreciate it.

3:24:16Yeah, you're welcome. If you ever want to talk about something, I'm here for you.

3:24:22Thanks. Alright, thank you. Alright. Bye everybody.